quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

quote:

Originally posted by spunk639:
bizarre behavior was a result of the illness.

I am curious what sort of bizarre behavior you witnessed. Development of beliefs of the sort described?

Severe Paranoia fixation on conspiracy, kind of X files style.

Marijuna is a hallucinogenic, and hallucinogenics work by altering neurochemical and neurotransmitter activity. That means that your brain is doing things it would not do naturally, affecting how your senses perceive things. Vision, hearing, sense of time, and other things are all affected. But they can also affect cognition and reasoning.

Haven't you ever heard a pothead pontificate on their distorted world view before?

"Like man, they are watching us through our TV's, and using the cellular towers to control our thoughts! It's the CIA man, they are working with Masons to take over the country. The seeing eye! They put it on our money man! They planned this decades ago. JFK and Bobby tried to stop them and they got killed man! After that Nixon put it all into action. He's not dead you know, he's over 100 but he's still calling the shots. They harvest organs from people they claim died in surgery to keep him alive. Just like that movie! It's so clear now, just take a hit, this is some good shit..."

We all met this guy at least once.

He could also have a mental illness. My sister was diagnosed with bipolar in her early 30's and was dead before 40. She also drank and abused prescription drugs. Her birthday was today, she would have been 52 now. After she died we went though her things and it was surprising and hilarious the stuff she had written. Not insane but definitely not fully living in reality, in the sense that she did not perceived that her behavior was rather aberrant and her issues in life and inability to hold a job were her responsibility. At some point she obsessed about Arnold Swarzeneggar and bought a DVD of every single movie with him in it, including documentaries, and foreign discs that could not be played on a US market player unless it was hacked to be region free. She wrote letters to him, like she knew him. Then there was the Russian boyfriend who couldn't speak any English so they communicated via Google Translate. One printout read "When I let the air out of your tires, it was just because I wanted you to talk to me".

Your friends issue might have been caused by the weed, or it might be bipolar or schizophrenia, or might be a combination of both. My sister's issues are probably a mix of all of it too.

Help him get to a therapist and rehab. That's the most you can do to help him. He needs to stop all drugs and let his brain stabilize. Then any organic issue can be addressed.

All fifty states have provisions for dealing with people who appear to be mentally ill,are a threat to themselves, or are a threat to others. They must be unable to care for themselves in the community. In Florida it is called the Baker Act. It is essentially a process where anyone can file an affidavit who meets the criteria noted above. The local police then pickup the individual and bring them to a psychiatric facility. In most states a licensed clinical psychologist evaluates them. If they are found to be mentally ill there is a court hearing where the patient has legal representation and testimony is taken. At that point he may be released or sent to a hospital for further evaluation.

^^^ And a court order to involuntarily confine him for evaluation would disqualify him from buying a firearm if it is properly reported to NICS.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
All fifty states have provisions for dealing with people who appear to be mentally ill,are a threat to themselves, or are a threat to others. They must be unable to care for themselves in the community.

He's nowhere close to that level of mental illness... paranoia and distrust at best. Think of a religious Jesus freak who loves reading the bible and spreading the good word. It might be all he wants to talk about but that aside he's a fully functioning adult. He takes great care of his daughter, has a job in sales and he's been meeting or exceeding his quota every quarter.

When I said he needs therapy I meant it in the sense that he's obsessed with consuming this conspiracy content and needs professional help to find more balance in his life. He's not doing anything illegal. He isn't harming anyone.

Another example: there's nothing illegal about thinking about sex or screwing as many willing partners out there but it's not healthy. Having random sex with strangers might not be illegal but it will be detrimental to one's health, particularly mental health, the more he or she engages in it. I use this as an example because I know someone who had this problem and only until she got therapy for it did she start to regain control and start the healing process. The key difference here is that she was born with those urges. He got divorced and went down the rabbit hole to fill the void where his family used to be. Born again Christian is the most applicable comparison.

I was passing that along as information to help you in case the need arises. If things get worse you know the law and what to do. The average citizen generally is not up on these issues.

Thank you. I was not aware of it but will keep it in mind should the need arise.

Well I do believe the election was stolen, along with the last one. And I don't think just moving on is the answer, but rather to put things in place so it doesn't happen again. As for the rest of it well, it's too bad because it really takes away from what is important. Seams he is falling for everything that is the polar opposite of mainstream. The rejection of mainstream media and corporations has drove him insane. I can relate it just gets so difficult to sort through all the information and pick out the truths. He just overloaded and shorted out, hopefully he comes around soon.

From Kimber1911 “We’re in a situation where we have put together, and you guys did it for our administration…President Obama’s administration before this. We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics,”
Pres. Select, Joe Biden

I'd be spending less and less time with him and if he asks why I would tell him.

With some is it even worth it to argue, dissuade, or try to reason?

One only has so much energy to expend in a given day. After a while it’s time to conserve some. I may just nod & move on if hopeless.

If he's using marijuana then how will he truthfully fill out a 4473?

Hunter Biden couldn't.

Advise him of the legal penalties. That is what a friend would do.

As for the flat earth etc there are a lot of folks in America who have dissimilar beliefs to others, and when we boil down some of it we discover there are distinct views. One such view has been the legality of how Covid, vaccinations, and mandates should be handled. The Courts are showing that this administration has overstepped it's legal bounds.

Saying that 18 months ago got people banned on social media. They were considered "conspiracy theorists." Now they are justified with a court decision they were right, and it's the pro mandate pro vaxx who are wrong.

Conspiracies proven to exist in court aren't being wacko, they are crimes the public was too blind to see. Those who keep up and track this are well aware of it. After spending 68 years on this planet and having the B2 confirmed, knowing SF soldiers who were on missions in North Vietnam the same day the Administration claimed they were not, or car safety mavens actually driving them recklessly to prove a point and make their reputation, I've found dozens of previous whacko theories were just plot spoilers of the future.

BTW, Ivermectin - that horse dewormer drug? is now part of the national treatment plan for Covid in half a dozen nations, including Japan where the Nobel prize winner came from. Those facts are right out there for anybody to research for themselves. Depending on the 6:00 news to inform the public, however, might be a radical conspiracy theory.

There are parties who deliberately portray certain issues in a light for their own advantage. Like, Peaceful Protesters seen dancing in the burning flames of destroyed businesses. That was certainly a conspiracy theory about their "non violent" protest, right?

What I have discovered it that there are a lot of folks with alternate views of what is going on, and to keep my mind open to the facts as they become available over time. Do that and you discover what was "the only way to do it" often becomes "the wrong way to do it" now.

Typed on a small computer with more power than the Lunar lander. A wild eyed conspiracy theorists fantasy.

I have a life long friend around the same age who has gone down the same road. I also have a close family member who has schizophrenia that I’ve been dealing with for 25 plus years. They’re not the same thing but one thing they have in common is that you can’t reason someone out of a belief they didn’t reason themselves into. They have to realize it for themselves.

In both situations it’s important not to encourage their bad thinking by listening to it or ignoring them. That doesn’t mean being combative but it does mean telling them when they’re talking nonsense. Second, try to get them to recognize that it’s possible they are wrong. Not that they are wrong, just that it’s possible. Then try to get them to consider the consequences of being wrong but persisting anyway (like raising a daughter who has incorrect views about fundamental things). I’d start there and see what happens.

Update: in this month's followup phone call here's the golden nuggets:


Michelle Obama is a man.

Jennifer Anniston is a man.

Sandra Bullock is a man.

Mike Pence is a pedophile who has at least 18 notches on his bedpost.

And that's when I told him that he needs to prioritize the information he seeks in his life.


I don't care if any of that is true or untrue. Frankly I don't give a shit. If Jennifer Anniston is a man then shit she fooled me good. Same with Sandra Bullock.


It's really sad to see a young man with so much potential to waste it on this gossip/conspiracy pig shit.

quote:

Originally posted by DaveL:
[Y]ou can’t reason someone out of a belief they didn’t reason themselves into.

Jonathan Swift put it this way: “It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.”

As a general truism I disagree.

In my childhood I accepted and held many beliefs merely because my parents and others in authority told me they were true. No reasoning was involved, and in some cases reasoning was actively prohibited. To the extent I believed or could believe, I did so because I was a dutiful eldest child who was disinclined to rebellion. Later, however, when I was free to think for myself, I abandoned those irrational beliefs precisely because I reasoned myself out of them. And the same has been true about many less important beliefs that I originally accepted because someone who seemed to be more knowledgeable than I promoted them. I wasn’t reasoned into them, but I did reason myself out of them.

Further, people like the unfortunate deluded man being described very often do think that their beliefs are based on facts and reason. What differs from many other people is how their brains interpret those facts. Such thinking is far from uncommon, however. As the line from the song goes, “A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.” The type of delusion described is fortunately uncommon, but the difference between him and countless others is a matter of degree, not of kind.

You mentioned he is in sales. What does he sell?

I have cut loose of friends for less and have no regrets. I had a friend of a good number of years who got himself a nice German Shepherd. He was a beer drinker as am I. But he started giving his dog beer and the dog loved it. I told him dogs do not metabolize alcohol and he's killing the dog. He refused to stop and I said see ya bud!

The older I get the less time I have for people who make stupid choices. You are a huge pot head who can't stop reciting stupid shit to me. See ya! My quality of life is far more important to me than theirs.

quote:

Originally posted by lbsid:
You mentioned he is in sales. What does he sell?

For many years he was in high end audio and home theater systems. Most of those brick and mortar stores closed down so he went into recruiting and a couple years ago he switched to Xfinity telesales because he needed the health benefits with the birth of his daughter. For a crappy numbers driven position with tons of rejection he hits or exceeds his quota every quarter.