This happened earlier this year and the video is now on you tube under the account "Hampton Law." I was notified that my Doctor had "left" the practice and I needed to select a new one. My Wife did some searching and found the story. He was going through a bad divorce and a child custody fight and was accused of vandalizing a relative's car. As for the video, I barely recognized him. Thinner, less hair and greyer. He also seems somewhat confused. We had gone to the same High School 19 years apart.

I support the police, but have been looking at a lot of civil law cases and think that some officers get their training by watching Judge Dredd movies. Don't have a warrant? Don't let the Fourth Amendment stop you. Yes, he had a gun but if the police hadn't tried to pull him from the house and had paid attention to his mental state they would have not needed to shoot him 13 times in the back.
Sorry, just need to vent about the loss of a good man.

This guy?:

Former Mercy Physician Fatally Shot by St. Louis County Police During Warrant Service in Fenton

“The deceased, identified as 38-year-old Aleksandr Lanis, was the subject of an arrest warrant for first-degree harassment.“

Another article:

Family of would-be killer thanks officers who were forced to fatally shoot the armed doctor

Excerpts:

“In the video, Lanis can be seen not complying with the officers' verbal commands to step out of the house as he was being placed under arrest. In a matter of seconds, the civil situation turned violent and a struggle ensued into the house. Investigators said when Lanis resisted, he also displayed a handgun.

Lieutenant Colonel Jerry Lure with the St. Louis County Police Department said, "While fighting for control of Mr. Lanis' handgun, officers continued giving commands to him to drop the weapon." One of the officers attempted to de-escalate then encounter and pulled out his taser, but it was ineffective as Lanis continued to resist officers.

One of the officers shouted, "No! No! Drop the gun! Drop the gun." The officers fired a total of 12 shots. Lanis did not fire his weapon and he was pronounced dead at the scene. Tim Fitch, a former St. Louis County Police Chief, councilman, and current police consultant, said, "I'm glad they had their body cameras rolling. I think it shows the public a good insight as to what officers face almost every day."“

“FirstAlert4 reported that after the body camera footage was released, the Smith family, the in-laws of Lanis, said in a statement:

"Our family was able to view the body camera footage of the tragic events that unfolded that day. We were deeply saddened by the choices Aleksander made in his final moments, and we are grateful to the officers who gave him every opportunity to choose a different outcome. We have learned this is often how untreated mental illness ends, and we encourage anyone struggling to listen to their loved ones and seek the help they need. Our hearts and energy are now focused on raising the child left behind from this tragedy."“

So did they have an arrest warrant? This has not been answered. The youtube lawyer just states they never mentioned a warrant or produced one, and the doctor never asked for one.

They told the doctor several times he was under arrest. The doctor should have complied with their instructions, and then sought out a good attorney to determine if the arrest was valid.

If it was not valid legal action could have been taken and the doctor would be alive today.

Nothing good can come from failure to comply with law enforcement, and you sure can't resolve the situation in the heat of the moment.


From Trapper's link:

"The deceased, identified as 38-year-old Aleksandr Lanis, was the subject of an arrest warrant for first-degree harassment. Officers arrived at approximately 10 a.m. at a residence in the 1000 block of Hawkins Bend Drive to serve the warrant when the situation turned violent."

quote:

So did they have an arrest warrant? This has not been answered.

Second post:

“The deceased, identified as 38-year-old Aleksandr Lanis, was the subject of an arrest warrant for first-degree harassment.“

quote:

I support the police, but have been looking at a lot of civil law cases and think that some officers get their training by watching Judge Dredd movies. Don't have a warrant? Don't let the Fourth Amendment stop you. Yes, he had a gun but if the police hadn't tried to pull him from the house and had paid attention to his mental state they would have not needed to shoot him 13 times in the back.
Sorry, just need to vent about the loss of a good man.

Yeah, don’t put any blame on the good ole Doctor.

Seriously. Even his own family understood that it was primarily the good doctor's own choices and actions that led to this outcome.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

So did they have an arrest warrant? This has not been answered.

Second post:

“The deceased, identified as 38-year-old Aleksandr Lanis, was the subject of an arrest warrant for first-degree harassment.“

4th post:

From Trapper's link:

"The deceased, identified as 38-year-old Aleksandr Lanis, was the subject of an arrest warrant for first-degree harassment. Officers arrived at approximately 10 a.m. at a residence in the 1000 block of Hawkins Bend Drive to serve the warrant when the situation turned violent."

quote:

Originally posted by OneWheelDrive:


I support the police, but have been looking at a lot of civil law cases and think that some officers get their training by watching Judge Dredd movies. Don't have a warrant? Don't let the Fourth Amendment stop you. Yes, he had a gun but if the police hadn't tried to pull him from the house and had paid attention to his mental state they would have not needed to shoot him 13 times in the back.

To help some of us understand what you’re talking about, let’s start with how you would have handled this. And explaining exactly how this was a Fourth Amendment violation.

quote:

Originally posted by OneWheelDrive:
…Sorry, just need to vent about the loss of a good man.

I’m not sure you’ll find much support here. He made a poor final decision. Sucks he was going through a hard time, like many people do, but he seemed to be making some bad choices at the end. It sucks, but I’m not sure why the police would be to blame here. They tried to be nice and just go through the process with him, but he decided he didn’t want to.

To be honest sometimes being too nice in law enforcement I think can lead to these situations. He kept asking for a minute and they kept kind of going along with it until they basically said it was happening. He almost seemed like he believed maybe if he just delayed it wouldn’t happen or he could just walk away, which he tried. Reminds me of kids getting in trouble just thinking if you give them the slightest glimmer of hope they think maybe it’ll just go away.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SigSauerP226,

I'm not sure what more they could have done to try and prevent what happened. They were calm, polite and compassionate with him up until he decided to bolt into the house for his gun.

If his “mental state” was an issue to be considered by the officers, riddle me this: Who is more likely to be a threat to officers while armed and being arrested? Someone who is in full control of his mental faculties and can appreciate the consequences of his actions, to include the probable outcome of resistance, or someone who is mentally disturbed to the point of having irrational thoughts that lead him to make irrational decisions? How many times have we heard of people who had “mental” issues do highly irrational things, including killing other people for no comprehensible reason?

Crazy people (to, yes, use a highly inappropriate term) are often considered to be very dangerous because very often they are. When dealing with someone who is armed, resisting, and has the means to kill you on the spot, the time to wonder about and consider their mental state has long since passed.

I think uttering the magic words 'we have a warrant for your arrest' might have been appropriate in this case.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by OneWheelDrive:


I support the police, but have been looking at a lot of civil law cases and think that some officers get their training by watching Judge Dredd movies. Don't have a warrant? Don't let the Fourth Amendment stop you. Yes, he had a gun but if the police hadn't tried to pull him from the house and had paid attention to his mental state they would have not needed to shoot him 13 times in the back.

To help some of us understand what you’re talking about, let’s start with how you would have handled this. And explaining exactly how this was a Fourth Amendment violation.

quote:

I think uttering the magic words 'we have a warrant for your arrest' might have been appropriate in this case.

As opposed to "You are under Arrest." If you are standing in the doorway to your house, talking with an officer and the officer tells you that you are under arrest, you are under arrest. When you resist by fleeing into the house, that is now "hot pursuit". An Arrest Warrant with a Subject's name and address allows officers to enter that address to search for that subject.

In Missouri, police can enter a residence with an arrest warrant if they reasonably believe the person named in the warrant is inside. An arrest warrant, by itself, doesn't authorize a general search of the entire residence. Officers can search areas where the suspect might be hiding, but a separate search warrant is needed for a broader search.

I spent most of my adult working life in LE. I'm retired now. If contacted by officers, I am clear on the fact that even if I believe the officer/s are jerks, are exceeding their authority, etc., I will comply with their instructions. I will not resist, and I definitely will not produce a firearm during that contact. I realize YMMV, but this is how I will personally conduct myself if contacted by police...

Agencies now days have robust citizens complaint investigation policies. Officers can be investigated for anything they did or didn't do, said or didn't say, etc. As a big city police sergeant, I conducted many of these investigations. Sometimes officers were disciplined, sometimes exonerated, sometimes the complainants prevailed in big lawsuits, etc. But the complainants had one thing in common, they were alive. Now the good doctor's family will undoubtedly sue for many millions, and may very well prevail. But the doctor will not benefit....

Spot on.

quote:

I think uttering the magic words 'we have a warrant for your arrest' might have been appropriate in this case.

Once upon a time long ago, I was involved with a police matter and officer (who lost his job as a result) which resulted in a warrant for my arrest. Here's how it went:

*ring ring*, *ring ring* (that's the telephone making noise)

Me: Hello?

Them: Yes, this is so and so with the County Sheriff's Department. You may not be aware, but a warrant was just issued for your arrest. Would you be available to turn yourself in?

Me: (Cussing soon to be fired officer), Yes.

Them: Great. You've got a $5,000 bond, 10% allowed. If you'll just come to the jail with $500 cash, hit the buzzer, tell whoever answers you're there to turn yourself in, we'll get you right in and out.

Me: OK.

Showed up, did what they said, and never even had handcuffs on.

I've never understood the need to surprise people in person with no history of issues with the police for non-violent offenses.

Oh, and if you're a police officer, or even a detective using your powers to "help" a friend, don't be a peeping tom. Otherwise, some PI might get photos of what you're up to while looking into the matter.

quote:

Originally posted by rock185: Now the good doctor's family will undoubtedly sue for many millions, and may very well prevail. But the doctor will not benefit....

In this case, the family of the decedent watched the video and placed the responsibility of the death where it belonged, on the offender that made the decisions to go to the family's home (where he'd been involved in a domestic violence incident(s) previously that resulted in an arrest warrant) bringing a deadly weapon, by disregarding the orders of the officers to submit to their attempts to place him under lawful arrest, and to violently resist their efforts to disarm him while taking him into custody.

It's sad, but good to see that the family recognized the officers' well intentioned, but unsuccessful attempts to carry out their duty.

"Our family was able to view the body camera footage of the tragic events that unfolded that day. We were deeply saddened by the choices Aleksander made in his final moments, and we are grateful to the officers who gave him every opportunity to choose a different outcome. We have learned this is often how untreated mental illness ends, and we encourage anyone struggling to listen to their loved ones and seek the help they need. Our hearts and energy are now focused on raising the child left behind from this tragedy."

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

I think uttering the magic words 'we have a warrant for your arrest' might have been appropriate in this case.

Once upon a time long ago, I was involved with a police matter and officer (who lost his job as a result) which resulted in a warrant for my arrest. Here's how it went:

*ring ring*, *ring ring* (that's the telephone making noise)

Me: Hello?

Them: Yes, this is so and so with the County Sheriff's Department. You may not be aware, but a warrant was just issued for your arrest. Would you be available to turn yourself in?

Me: (Cussing soon to be fired officer), Yes.

Them: Great. You've got a $5,000 bond, 10% allowed. If you'll just come to the jail with $500 cash, hit the buzzer, tell whoever answers you're there to turn yourself in, we'll get you right in and out.

Me: OK.

Showed up, did what they said, and never even had handcuffs on.

I've never understood the need to surprise people in person with no history of issues with the police for non-violent offenses.

Oh, and if you're a police officer, or even a detective using your powers to "help" a friend, don't be a peeping tom. Otherwise, some PI might get photos of what you're up to while looking into the matter.

Sample size of one and quite specific at the end.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

I think uttering the magic words 'we have a warrant for your arrest' might have been appropriate in this case.

Once upon a time long ago, I was involved with a police matter and officer (who lost his job as a result) which resulted in a warrant for my arrest. Here's how it went:

*ring ring*, *ring ring* (that's the telephone making noise)

Me: Hello?

Them: Yes, this is so and so with the County Sheriff's Department. You may not be aware, but a warrant was just issued for your arrest. Would you be available to turn yourself in?

Me: (Cussing soon to be fired officer), Yes.

Them: Great. You've got a $5,000 bond, 10% allowed. If you'll just come to the jail with $500 cash, hit the buzzer, tell whoever answers you're there to turn yourself in, we'll get you right in and out.

Me: OK.

Showed up, did what they said, and never even had handcuffs on.

I've never understood the need to surprise people in person with no history of issues with the police for non-violent offenses.

Oh, and if you're a police officer, or even a detective using your powers to "help" a friend, don't be a peeping tom. Otherwise, some PI might get photos of what you're up to while looking into the matter.

It'd be interesting to know the story behind this at some point.