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| 186,000 miles per second. It's the law. |
NY Teamsters are in trouble. Houston LEOs and firefighters are insolvent. Years of planning with un-achievable returns and payouts that were too generous, are coming home to roost. And imagine in a few years when we transition to driverless trucks, and we lose all of the new contributions?? These plans will implode. We'll be hearing more about this in the near future. "Municipal and state plans are the next to go down — that’s a pension tsunami that’s coming,” he said. “In many states, those defined benefit plans are seriously underfunded — and at the end of the day, math trumps the statutes.” http://www.zerohedge.com/news/...nsion-tsunami-coming http://watchdog.org/285551/texas-pension-crisis/ | ||
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In CO the state PERA is in deep water too, of course they expect the citizens to make up the shortfall thereby ruining the citizen's retirement plans. Anything for the precious state workers, most of whom work for the state because they are too stupid and too lazy for the private sector. | |||
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| 186,000 miles per second. It's the law. |
Well that may be true for some state employees, but LEOs and Firefighters and other first responders? A LOT of hard working men and women are going to be royally screwed by poor planning. | |||
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| I have not yet begun to procrastinate |
This came to a head in my case with the stock market crash of '08-'09. In my city, the city didn't have to pay into the fund if it was at X% funding level. Good news for them and they pissed the money away like politicians do. Then the funding percentage falls, stocks crashed, and the city has to come up with money they say they don't have. Much argument ensues because the city has more money than ever before but they are putting it into different areas (for more votes) because they could ignore their potential obligation for DECADES. One of the solutions that has come up is the tweaking or flat out disappearance of the defined benefit plan. New hires get a different package that uses a sliding scale to figure retirements. Not sure if I would have been jumping to be a firefighter to be exposed toxins, infectious disease, violent douches and idiots on the roadways for a 401a I could have working in air conditioning at Costco. -------- After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box. | |||
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Pension liabilities will be the downfall for many states and local municipalities. Politicians cry over bathroom access for transgenders, if city parks are ADA compliant, and other trivial stuff, while pension funding implodes. It's like facing down a category 5 hurricane with an umbrella. P229 | |||
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process  |
Some will be, but in San Diego, a great game was uncovered where fire department guys were swapping jobs around to maximize the pension psyouts, something about the highest salary level during any ~3 month period in the last two years or something like that. It made a big difference in retirement pay, so the guys would swap jobs. Another scheme was buying additional years of "service" for a flat fee, a fraction of its worth. I no longer remember the numbers, but you could buy additional years of service for retirement purposes so as to increase your retirement pay. The publc employee unions dominate city politics, so the union negotiates these arrangements with their own menbers and sycophants. Neat! Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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Sigforum K9 handler |
AWESOME stereotype. Why not say something bad about gun owners? Maybe Jews? I left an $70,000 a year job in the private sector to police full time for half that. And that was AFTER working both jobs full time for about six years. Again, awesome stereotype you have going on there. You should be proud. | |||
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| Do---or do not. There is no try. |
Dallas Police and Fire Pension Fund. A horrendous mess. | |||
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| 186,000 miles per second. It's the law. |
Indeed, this "gaming the system" needs to be stopped. But overall a lot of good people will be screwed. | |||
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| 186,000 miles per second. It's the law. |
Agree! A lot of good men on this forum will have their retirements at risk, due to city and state politicians buying votes with financial promises they could not keep. Where are the fiduciaries?? | |||
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Beyond political shenanigans and some bad apples gaming the system, the math of longevity is seriously stacked against pensions these days. You've got to be making some HUGE contributions for 20 years to make that payout last for the next 35-40. | |||
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Member |
Illinois is in horrible horrible shape as far as state pensions go. Republican governor but near super majority control of house/senate by democrats who refuse to do anything about it but propose massive tax and fee increases. Democrats got Illinois into this mess by promising pensions increases for votes without ever funding. It is not going to end well. Illinois also in many places sets pension based on last full year working income and the game is that anyone who wants gets unlimited overtime in that last year or a possibly promotion to a much higher paying job for the last year. I believe Illinois is now dead last as far as state fiscal shape is concerned. If the massive tax increases become reality the producers are going to flee this state. I am just waiting for wife to retire so we can get out as we will not be able to afford property taxes on our home any more during retirement. We paid off our house a couple years ago but the property tax payments were much higher than the mortgage payment!! | |||
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| Shit don't mean shit |
Public defined benefit pension systems need to be eliminated. They should be forced to switch to defined contribution systems like the rest of us. | |||
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| No double standards |
But often stereotypes exist because they fit a large part of the designated population. In CA, a number of public agencies have a 20-50-90 pension, where you work for 20 years, reach age 50, and retire at 90% of your highest annual comp (my neighbor is one). A few years ago our city council voted for themselves that after serving one term (part time work), the city will pay for their full health insurance for the rest of their lives (then they couldn't figure out how to pay for maintenance on the city library across the street). A small county agency to aid low income housing needs received a $16M grant from Obama, to "help the homeless". The full amount went to pad their gravy-train retirement, not a penny to help those in need. Last year(ish) the SacBee (not at all a conservative paper) noted that the unfunded public pension liability in CA was around $420B (meaning the present value of money going out is $420B more than the present value of money coming in). But, but, but, that assumes they will earn a 7.5% return on their investment portfolio. If they earn only a 4% return, the shortfall for CA public pensions is around $1 Trillion. "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it" - Judge Learned Hand, May 1944 | |||
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| Member |
Perhaps phased out over time. Anyone that signed on to the existing system did so with the expectation of receiving the pension. Not fair to pull the rug out. New hires are a different story. | |||
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process |
You can't let fiduciaries run that much money without "supervision." They might not understand what is required, the subleties, the fine points of the power involved. Investment management fees are enormous on that much money. Why should those fees go to someone just because they are qualified? Why not give the lucrative gig to a supporter, preferably a grateful supporter? There are regular scandals over the antics of competing for who manages the funds. College entrance "preferences" scholarships for children of trustees, other "benefits." Reading the account of how much attention the treasurer of Orange County received from Merrill Lynch while he was investing them into bankruptcy is an eye opener. This guy couldn't even be left alone to take a leak by himself for fear some competitor might try to entice him to give business to someone else. Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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| No double standards |
Yes, a lot of good people will be screwed. Many of the fiduciaries will be cashed out and long gone when the tsunami hits the beach. "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it" - Judge Learned Hand, May 1944 | |||
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I'm Fine |
State worker here. Did about 15 in the private sector and I'm on year 13 in State employ. I'd have to say that the percentage of people who are shirkers or lazy SOBs is only sightly higher in .gov than in .com. The only difference is it's harder to fire a .gov employee. Gov Haslam came in and revised some rules in TN and has made it easier to get rid of state employees who can't cut it, and it's getting better here. As far as I know - TN pension (all public school teachers, state employees, lots of utility workers, etc.) is in decent shape. ------------------ SBrooks | |||
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| I kneel for my God, and I stand for my flag |
Yet they have spent how many billions on illegals? Anyone else notice the majority of the places where pensions are in trouble are liberal strongholds. Partly due to unions, but also piss poor management and robbing Peter to pay Paul for giving handouts to everyone. | |||
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| stupid beyond all belief  |
No surprise there. They will continually ratchet down pension payouts as thry are not guaranteed. If I werr a worker in any sort of a pension i would take thr lumpsum payout or go self directed from the start if it were an option. What man is a man that does not make the world better. -Balian of Ibelin Only boring people get bored. - Ruth Burke | |||
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