quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
How many fuel tanks does that type of helicopter have? Could have switched to a tank with bad fuel?

Not sure. Could have been a number of issues from fuel starvation, to out of control flight / spatial disorientation, random mechanical failure, to simple controlled flight into terrain - yeah someone heard it 'sputtering', but eyewitness statements are notoriously unreliable, especially if that person has little to no idea what an S-76 sounds like in certain conditions.

Personally if I was loaded with cash and determined that a helicopter was the only reasonable solution to my lifestyle / business, I'd have it dual piloted - if not at all times, certainly at night or under IFR (Instrument Flight Rules).

Just a holdover from my time in the military were nearly every helicopter has 2 rated pilots.

Yeah, a jet engine does not sputter. It's either on or off, unless its a ramjet. The spaghetti maneuver is him holding position over burbank. That area is inside a bowl of mountains and overflowing with IFR traffic. The weather was shit and everyone was utilizing IFR traffic rules, this guy was flying visual, VFR, when that happens you get told to hold outside of controlled airspace until and IFR hole opens up where they can squeak you through. He had to hold over Burbank until Van Nuys could accept his visual flight. Van Nuys is tremendously busy for corporate IFR traffic. PLus burbank had a go-around that they had to work back in. This guy was running vfr between the clouds, kept going lower and lower as he went west trying to stay below the clouds, he set off his ground proximity warning telling him he was too low, Then made a rapid pull up to avoid the terrain and ran out of talent and luck.

My initial assessment is pilot error. With the weather being 1100 overcast and him flying at VFR at 1400 means the clouds were all below him. He could not see the ground, plus the fog would turn everything into a gray haze. He should have never taken off VFR, he should have been IFR the whole way.

^^^^
Yeah, that pretty much sums the likely situation.

Makes you wonder how he sourced his pilot(s) - i.e., skill level, talent, pay, etc.

Sympathy to the Altobelli family.

So that guy was trying to fly below the cloudline not realizing it was groundfog? Pardon my non-pilot stupid q.

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
So that guy was trying to fly below the cloudline not realizing it was groundfog? Pardon my non-pilot stupid q.

Yes, we call it scud running. Trying to stay visual underneath a cloud layer. It's not too bad of an idea where the terrain is mostly level. In mountainous areas, it's deadly.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffxjet:
My initial assessment is pilot error. With the weather being 1100 overcast and him flying at VFR at 1400 means the clouds were all below him. He could not see the ground, plus the fog would turn everything into a gray haze. He should have never taken off VFR, he should have been IFR the whole way.

I wonder if working for Bryant made a difference. It sounds like the pilot was basically a limo driver in the sky, and maybe Bryant was impatient to get to his daughter's basketball camp or game. Who knows. But it seems the helicopter just flew right into a pile of dirt. If so, what a shame.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffxjet:

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
So that guy was trying to fly below the cloudline not realizing it was groundfog? Pardon my non-pilot stupid q.

Yes, we call it scud running. Trying to stay visual underneath a cloud layer. It's not too bad of an idea where the terrain is mostly level. In mountainous areas, it's deadly.

Yeah, in the Navy over the water you felt pretty safe. In that terrain, no fucking way.

Another benefit of two experienced pilots is you hope one will say "what the fuck are you doing? Turn around, climb and get a goddamn IFR clearance". Sure it's no guarantee, but it helps check someone who is having a really bad day, like this pilot had.

Concerning pressure to get there, I'm sure it happens but now every corporate pilot can say "How much is your life worth to you <insert famous name>? Wanna end up like Kobe????". Not that it would ever happen, but I've pushed the envelope enough in very high performance planes to never screw around like that in very low performance civie planes.

More eyewitness reports of nearly zero visibility and thick fog at the time of the crash.

https://people.com/sports/911-...r-in-quarter-second/

quote:

Originally posted by erj_pilot:
Shades of JFK, Jr. all over again...

JFK Jr was private pilot earning his Instrument rating. By the sounds of it, Kobe was not the pilot. Sounds like scud running into a mountain.

This a terrible event for all those involved and affected. A Prayer for all of them.

Kind of amazing that it's not even been 12 hours since the copter went down, and there is so much information and discussion in such a small amount of time.

There seems to be universal outrage directed at TMZ for breaking the news before family could be notified. Other than custom, why is that so important? The bad news is not going to change based on when and how it's learned. Is it any better to get this kind of news from a stranger in a uniform standing on your porch? Admittedly I have not been through it so I am generally interested in other's take on the issue.

Well, as far as the media goes, it reminds me of what my dad told me when he was a traffic reporter in LA. He worked for a few radio stations in the 80s flying a fixed wing. One of his old station bosses used to say when it came to reporting- “You can be first, or you can be right.”

quote:

Originally posted by oddball:
Good Ole OJ "The Juice" Simpson has a video statement on Twitter regarding Bryant's death. "Life doesn't promise us tomorrow..."

https://twitter.com/therealoj3...528699628994560?s=21

Yeah some ahole could come along at any moment and slit yer throat....

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:
There seems to be universal outrage directed at TMZ for breaking the news before family could be notified. Other than custom, why is that so important? The bad news is not going to change based on when and how it's learned. Is it any better to get this kind of news from a stranger in a uniform standing on your porch? Admittedly I have not been through it so I am generally interested in other's take on the issue.

I think it has to do with class and etiquette.

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:
There seems to be universal outrage directed at TMZ for breaking the news before family could be notified. Other than custom, why is that so important? The bad news is not going to change based on when and how it's learned. Is it any better to get this kind of news from a stranger in a uniform standing on your porch? Admittedly I have not been through it so I am generally interested in other's take on the issue.

It does make a difference. The difference is in hearing from an authority involved in the situation vs hearing from a news/gossip outlet whose primary concern is being first to break a story.

The first reports said all four of Kobe's kids were on the flight w/ him and perished in the crash. I don't know how much Kobe's wife and other family members knew about his little aerial commute that morning, but I can imagine there were some agonizing moments for his relatives hearing [inaccurately] all his daughters died.

I suppose it comes down to, if one of your next of kin died, do you want the rest of the world to find out about it before you, or would you like to be notified first?

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
OK. He was a ball player, made millions of dollars.

What about the other four people on board?

Thank You!

quote:

Originally posted by k5blazer:
. . . . How many servicemen killed in helicopter crashes get this kind of coverage? . . . .

No Shit. The guy was a basketball player. Sorry he and the child are gone. However, he was no more important than anyone else.

quote:

Originally posted by Marlin Fan:

quote:

Originally posted by k5blazer:
. . . . How many servicemen killed in helicopter crashes get this kind of coverage? . . . .

No Shit. The guy was a basketball player. Sorry he and the child are gone. However, he was no more important than anyone else.

No shit.

---

MAY 7, 1985 FROM TIMES WIRE SERVICES
TOKYO — A U.S. Marine helicopter with 17 people aboard crashed in the ocean off southern Japan Monday, disappearing with only an oil slick left behind, American officials said.

Lance Cpl. Thomas J. Agnew Jr., 21, of Villanova, Pa., REST IN PEACE

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:
This a terrible event for all those involved and affected. A Prayer for all of them.

Really?
They’re dead
And somehow a magical prayer helps them?
Never understood this superstition.
Why not just rub a rabbits foot for them too?

quote:

Originally posted by sigmoid:

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:
This a terrible event for all those involved and affected. A Prayer for all of them.

Really?
They’re dead
And somehow a magical prayer helps them?
Never understood this superstition.
Why not just rub a rabbits foot for them too?

Just what the hell is your problem?

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Full flight data, happened at the end of a longer flight (and not immediately after takeoff) which would seem to rule out bad fuel.

https://ibb.co/ZJY51Wt

https://www.flightradar24.com/...craft/n72ex#23a8271e

How many fuel tanks does that type of helicopter have? Could have switched to a tank with bad fuel?

I've never worked on the S-76, but I have worked on other Sikorsky Helos and they all had similar fuel systems. All had 2 fuels cells (not counting Aux tanks). The starboard cell fed the starboard engine and the port cell the port engine with an interconnecting tube between the two cells that allowed the fuel to freely flow between the two cells.
All had the capability to cross feed from the other cell in case of blockage/malfunction on the primary side.
I remember one Class A (fatal crash) where the Helo lost an engine while low on fuel. The Pilot banked the aircraft with the good engine on the high side which caused the fuel to flow into the bad engines fuel cell. When the good engines fuel plumbing sucked air the engine flamed out and the aircraft went down.