I don’t go to gunshops all that often, but just in the past 6 months saw 3 that were looking to buy their 1st gun.

Not saying that’s good or bad, but part of the ‘gun rush’ the last 12 months.

It certainly doesn't seem to be dominating the headlines any longer.

As previously said...good guys/gals with guns (some probably with those evil 'high capacity clips' ) swiftly and effectively stopped a bad gun with gun.

Doesn't fit the GC crowd's preferred narrative.

$.02 worth,
Boss

quote:

Originally posted by 911Boss:
Why oh why would she move towards the threat instead of retreat?

One possible explanation:

When the shit hits the fan and the body goes into flight mode, many people will react by attempting to exit the building the exact way they entered. It's a pretty natural reaction. You know that's the way out, and your body doesn't want to waste the processing power on attempting to identify other options and decide if they are good options to allow you to flee. So it goes with the easiest known option for escape.

You see this in incidents involving emergencies in crowded buildings, like a fire in a building with a lot of people inside. People will mob the main entrance/exit, since it's where they came in and so their body says it's the way out, often bypassing other less crowded exit options. Unfortunately, it can result in bottlenecking situations, where people are trampled or crushed, or the main exit is blocked, and the casualty count increases.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by 911Boss:
Why oh why would she move towards the threat instead of retreat?

One possible explanation:

When the shit hits the fan and the body goes into flight mode, many people will react by attempting to exit the building the exact way they entered. It's a pretty natural reaction. You know that's the way out, and your body doesn't want to waste the processing power on attempting to identify other options and decide if they are good options to allow you to flee. So it goes with the easiest known option for escape.

You see this in incidents involving emergencies in crowded buildings, like a fire in a building with a lot of people inside. People will mob the main entrance/exit, since it's where they came in and so their body says it's the way out, often bypassing other less crowded exit options. Unfortunately, it can result in bottlenecking situations, where people are trampled or crushed, or the main exit is blocked, and the casualty count increases.

I guess that makes sense to a point, but if one recognizes the threat requiring the urgent need to flee it seems crazy to run directly at that threat.

Might not know another escape, but at that point evade becomes the better option than facing the threat head on.

quote:

Originally posted by 911Boss:
Why oh why would she move towards the threat instead of retreat?

For everyone interested in personal survival in bad situations, I highly recommend the book The Unthinkable: Who Survives When Disaster Strikes—and Why by Amanda Ripley. I don’t recall discussion of the specific question of why people move toward danger in situations like this one, but it examines conditioned, unthinking behavior at length. What most people do is largely influenced by the fact that that they don’t think about and anticipate how they will react when something bad happens and are therefore subject to panicking (real mindless panic, not the pseudo panic we like to accuse people of when they’re about to run out of toilet paper).

Besides panic, though, there are other mindsets that cause people to not think through what they’re doing. Ripley discusses at length the 9/11 attacks on the towers and how people reacted. The woman in the gun store probably didn’t really view the killer as a threat, but more like the loud, belligerent drunk at a bar that causes people to think, “Okay, time to leave. Where’s the way out?” There have been similar reactions by some people even when it’s clear what’s happening. Teachers or school administrators have been killed while confronting active shooters because they thought that, “Now, now, Jimmy. Shooting your classmates is wrong and you should stop,” would somehow be as effective as admonishing him to pay attention in class.

Much response to active shooter training emphasizes, “If you hear gunfire, or even think you hear gunfire, get out NOW!” Don’t sit there trying to convince yourself that it’s probably this or it’s probably that. If you’re wrong, you suffered a bit of embarrassment and inconvenience. If you’re right, you may have saved your own life.

Added: Keep in mind that even when people have the leisure to examine a situation at length without being in danger themselves, we often interpret things differently. In reading the responses here thus far, most people that consider a motive and the killer’s intent seem to believe that he somehow “snapped” in response to being challenged about the extended magazine. I, however, still believe that he more likely went to the store with mass murder in mind. I could be wrong and we may never know, but how we interpret motives affects how we react to someone’s actions.

I had some very limited force on force training that was scenario based. In the very first scenario I was simply a bystander. When the shit began to unfold my reaction was like staring at a train wreck. My thoughts were “he’s got a gun”, followed by “they’re going to shoot at each other”, etc. I was standing flat footed, not moving, watching the scene unfold. I was not completely ignorant/unaware at the time, but my natural reaction was still to watch it unfold like I was watching a movie scene.

I very quickly learned that at the first sign of trouble (not directly in my face), especially a presentation of a gun or shots fired, that the proper reaction is to immediate take cover and safely put distance between you and the shooter(s).

I suspect she saw him as a threat, but not to HER, and her intention was to walk past him and leave.

quote:

Originally posted by 911Boss:
I guess that makes sense to a point, but if one recognizes the threat requiring the urgent need to flee it seems crazy to run directly at that threat.

You're assuming that people act rationally in stressful, dangerous situations. (As a Dispatcher, you should know better. )

They very often do "crazy" nonsensical things when they're panicky and reacting with their primal "lizard brains" rather than utilizing the rational thinking portion of their brains.

But as stated, "panicked flight out the way she came" is just one potential explanation. There are other reasonable explanations as to why she would have walked towards the guy. Sigfreund made a good point about how she may have not necessarily processed him as a threat specifically to herself at the time. Again, people commonly make bad choices in the heat of the moment in stressful situations.

quote:

Originally posted by hurstolds1:
This is my LGS. Employees generally open carry and conceal carry holders are not required to unload their weapons.

That is the policy of both of the LGSs in town (in Kommiefornia even). One has clear signage that all guns must be unloaded. However, when I took the required class for the LTC (License to Carry, CA had to be different), the owner explained that those signs don’t apply to folks with permits.

From the footage, the woman wasn't a threat. He could plainly see she was not armed and harmless.

The LGS/range I use has the same rules--holstered guns can be loaded and not handled off the range, otherwise only guns on line can be loaded.

That facility (2 different locations) has been in business for 40 years; there have been 2 suicides on the range and one accident in the store that I know of, no one else hurt. (The accident was a clerk shot himself in the hand racking a loaded 1911 to unload it--ha!)

flashguy

Today, I went to one of the two indoor ranges I frequent.

Near the front door, an employee sat on a chair just out of sight of anyone walking in---just in case.

I renewed my membership today at my range. There was a pack of folks. All very large people. 5-6 people and one of the employees was giving them a lecture on what to do etc. We’re talking noob city but she had to break it down to them, to almost caveman shit. Each bought one box of ammo. And that’s it. Due to the ammo scarcity the employee said that’s all they could sell each person. Their ammo prices during normal times are absolutely insane. My guy finishes up my paperwork and I say “One box of ammo? I wouldn’t even bother with it” and he says “me either”. To call that group a pack of tits would be putting it mildly. If I was shooting and had my bag, ammo, etc, I would have left right then and there. Fuck me.