With the Notre Dame fire all over the news, I was struck at the difference of the helmets worn by European firefighters compared to American firefighters.

Our helmets seem much more "traditional" and kind of old-fashioned compared to these sleek, modern helmets worn by the French and Germans.

Do any firefighters here on the forum have any ideas or thoughts on that?

French fire helmet:



German fire helmet:



American fire helmets:

That is an old school FF helmet. If you look in the blurry rear you will see guys wearing more modern stuff and by modern it’s been around a long time.

I remember helmets like this as far back as the early 90s.

https://images.app.goo.gl/gPdfvc4uVSwScwfR8

That French one looks like armor and is very cool.

I read that many of the Euro helmets have headphones built into them and their fire temp rating is higher.

The article mentioned that American firefighters often have to remove their helmet when getting into a crashed car or other confined space due to how tall they are and the Euro ones look like that's not a problem.

There's a true beauty in a leather traditional American fire helmet.

Kinda like a fine crafted holster or mechanical watch.

When I was a volunteer FF in a different lifetime, we were issued the newer ones. I bought my own traditional (albeit not a leather one - bc those are $$$) because I loved the look.

The French FF helmet is reminiscent of the French Army helmet, M15/M26 aka "Adrian"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_helmet


The German FF helmet reminds me of the iconic M35 "stahlhelm"

Hardly coincidental I think

JB

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
With the Notre Dame fire all over the news, I was struck at the difference of the helmets worn by European firefighters compared to American firefighters.

Our helmets seem much more "traditional" and kind of old-fashioned compared to these sleek, modern helmets worn by the French and Germans.

Do any firefighters here on the forum have any ideas or thoughts on that?

French fire helmet:



German fire helmet:



American fire helmets:

I want one of those French helmets, and I'm not even a FF.

It also covers the back of the neck, unlike the American one in the OP.

100 years of tradition unimpeded by progress.
3-5 lbs on top of your head. Some still handmade in leather.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aojC36TkqzY

Funny you post this.

Yes American Fire Helmets look different. The style you posted is a traditional helmet. There are other versions that are less traditional like the Metro style.

We love our traditional helmets, yes they are an old style and the French style IE Gaillet Helmer’s do some things better.

However there are some differences between how we fight fire and how they do. First of all the building construction they fight fires in is a lot different then ours. Second there gear is not as insulated as ours is. One of the reasons that American firefighters like to have just a hood over their ears is so they can judge the temperature of the fire. This is hard to judge because of how well we are insulated. A concern that a lot of American firefighters have is that they would no longer have that feedback. In addition a lot of us just like our helmets, it’s a very personal piece of our ppe and I know I feel more connected to it then any other piece of my gear.

In the fire service tradition is taken very seriously.
Back in the 80s and 90s they tried different styles of fire helmet including some styled after European fire helmets. most did not catch on.
The one that did was the Metro. We called it the turtle shell. I wore a metro when I was an instructor at a county fire academy.
My regular helmet in my department was a traditional leather New Yorker. Over the years they remodeled them with a inner impact shell to meet stricter safety standards.
Back in the 80s they also tried to go to a tan colored turnout gear but this to also did not catch on. To this day most firefighters still wear black turnout gear.
I am talking from my experience as a firefighter from New Jersey. Other areas of the country may differ.
If you look at the picture under my name(71 TRUCK)that is my helmet.

These Gallet helmets are like something out of the Hunger Games!

quote:

Originally posted by 71 TRUCK:
To this day most firefighters still wear black turnout gear.
I am talking from my experience as a firefighter from New Jersey. Other areas of the country may differ.

Around here you would have to look hard to find any turnout gear that isn't tan colored .

On one ship I was the number one nozzleman. We had fiberglass helmets and tan colored ensemble gear. But we still used the MSA OBA or oxygen breathing apparatus, a set of exposed lungs and chest harness that held a checmical that scrubbed our exhaled breath, and turned it to oxygen.

Nothing like going into a fire with real oxygen to breathe.

And the canisters were susceptible to exploding if exposed directly to oil. So we had to chuck them off the stern so they wouldn’t burn or explode.

It was difficult to get through st scuttles, and I was skinny!

I wonder if the leather helmet provides any real safety from debris?

quote:

Originally posted by Jimbo Jones:
The German FF helmet reminds me of the iconic M35 "stahlhelm"

Hardly coincidental I think

The older types were pretty much that, maybe with a leather flap added for neck protection.



Newer types follow various international trends.

I’ve always worn a leather New Yorker...25 years on the job and wouldn’t have it any other way...as has been said...it’s tradition and that is taken seriously. There are firefighters that wear the non-traditional similar the the UK/Paris/Germany but mostly the West coast...as we all know they can be strange in many aspects out there, including fire helmets
They do offer quite a bit of protection when stuff falls on your head, I don’t know how many times I’ve exited a fire with sheetrock from ceiling collapses all over my helmet and didn’t realize it...of course, firefighters don’t tend to complain much so there’s that.

I’m not a firefighter, so this is how it looks to one outsider.

I have seen firefighters subject to very stringent safety rules that at times seemed arbitrary and excessive under the circumstances. But that I understand; just like Army regulations, every one of them was implemented because something bad happened when they weren’t observed.

What is therefore difficult to understand is why tradition is permitted to dictate how the most important part of someone’s body is protected. Maybe they’re good enough, but every time I look at one of those ancient designs I wonder if some police chief somewhere is still using the “tradition” argument to have his men (no women allowed!) wear Sam Browne belts and carry their revolvers in crossdraw flap holsters next to their 38 Special lead round nose bullet loads in open ammunition loops.

But thanks to the fire guys for protecting us all; we have few fires in my town, but I don’t want one spreading to burn us all down.

quote:

Originally posted by cgode:
I’ve always worn a leather New Yorker...25 years on the job and wouldn’t have it any other way...as has been said...it’s tradition and that is taken seriously.

That's a strange attitude to me.

You wouldn't go to war in 2019 with a helmet from 1917 would you?

I love threads like this, thanks all.

Question for the firefighters here that has already been alluded to.

I once read that with the insulation American FF's wear, it is possible to get into a situation where by the time you feel the heat through the gear, it is basically too late to get out in time. This was in the context of a large furniture store that burned and killed a number of firefighters. At another time, a question was asked, "Why are the pics of FF's always showing them with the visor up?", and the answer was, when it starts to melt that is a sign to GTFO. I hadn't heard the sensitive ears explanation, but that certainly makes sense.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:

quote:

Originally posted by cgode:
I’ve always worn a leather New Yorker...25 years on the job and wouldn’t have it any other way...as has been said...it’s tradition and that is taken seriously.

That's a strange attitude to me.

You wouldn't go to war in 2019 with a helmet from 1917 would you?

I suppose I wouldn’t, I see your point.
What I do know is that my helmet design has served me well for many years. I’ve seen a few plastic helmets that show signs of melting and that doesn’t give me the warm fuzzies....especially when its being worn on the guy next to me. Leather doesn’t melt, it protects my head and neck from debis and I do wear a hood for thermal protection. What I don’t know, from lack of experience with the european types, is how well it keeps water from running down your back inside of the coat...I see some designs have a flap on the back and some don’t. Water inside your coat in a hot environment can/will turn to steam resulting in some serious burns....no thank you to that!

quote:

Originally posted by Otto Pilot:
Question for the firefighters here that has already been alluded to.

I once read that with the insulation American FF's wear, it is possible to get into a situation where by the time you feel the heat through the gear, it is basically too late to get out in time. This was in the context of a large furniture store that burned and killed a number of firefighters. At another time, a question was asked, "Why are the pics of FF's always showing them with the visor up?", and the answer was, when it starts to melt that is a sign to GTFO. I hadn't heard the sensitive ears explanation, but that certainly makes sense.

Yes and no. The PPE is rated to survey X amount of time in a flash over. It has gotten better and better over the years. With this increased insulation, smaller high pressure SCBA cylinders that are rated for 45 minutes VS. old 30 minutes bottles / some departments have 60 minute bottles, combine that with do more with less manpower Leads to heat saturation. So yes it is possible. As for my no answer, You or I should say We need to be aware of what the F is going on. That's every member of a entry team.

As for the shield up its just one more thing that obscures your vision or gets fogged up that you got to wipe off to see after you apply water. I've herd that shield melt thump my chest thing before however if water isn't getting the fire under control and it melts on me I' getting my crew out.

The sensitive ear thing my retired Capt was that way. He didn't wear a hood so his ears where exposed to the environment. Me I was reared with a Nomex hood and been on the job 22 years.