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Originally posted by RichardC:

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Originally posted by nhtagmember:
He was appropriately ventilated and the officer did very well with multiple rounds on the target.

Did we hear eleven shots? Fourteen? Were they all from one source? All 9MM's from state-of-the-art red-dotted, maxi-round-count striker-fired sidearms? Did they all penetrate 14-16" and stop within the soon to be carcass?



Could we see a diagram of where all the officers and civilian no-shoots were located in relation to the suicide-by-cop looneytune?

Where are you going?

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Did we hear eleven shots? Fourteen? Were they all from one source? All 9MM's from state-of-the-art red-dotted, maxi-round-count striker-fired sidearms? Did they all penetrate 14-16" and stop within the soon to be carcass?

Keep in mind that it takes NO TIME to rattle off several, even aimed shots and even though the 1st shot may have “stopped the threat” they may not have even started to fall/show signs of no longer being a threat between shots 2 and 10 add in multiple shooters and it’s easy to let loose quite a few rounds even without “spray and pray” so to speak.

I would imagine there are a vast number of one or two shot incidents that would have/did stop the threat but by the time that information had traveled through the threat and back to the shooters quite a few more rounds get fired.

I think it’s the nature of the beast. Even a “lowly revolver” can bang off all six shots damn fast especially when you are puckered up enough to poop diamonds. Even if the target was hit once or was surrendering and dropping the weapon at the sound of the first shot the time for that information to be processed is easily 5 to 10 shots.

All I’m saying is it’s easy to say they shot too many times or if they would have had X bigger caliber they would have needed to shoot less but the reality is all of this is happening so fast it takes multiple shots just to realize the threat is down even if the first round decided the event.

All that is also my way of saying I want NOTHING to do with ever having to use violence to stop a threat and pray to God I never have to because these damn videos or a shot timer make me pucker up a little much less the stress of the real thing. May God let me live my life happily high drag and low speed.

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All that is also my way of saying I want NOTHING to do with ever having to use violence to stop a threat and pray to God I never have to because these damn videos or a shot timer make me pucker up a little much less the stress of the real thing. May God let me live my life happily high drag and low speed. Smile

"Guns are tools. The only weapon ever created was man."

Well said, ditto.

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Originally posted by cslinger:
All I’m saying is it’s easy to say they shot too many times or if they would have had X bigger caliber they would have needed to shoot less but the reality is all of this is happening so fast it takes multiple shots just to realize the threat is down even if the first round decided the event.

Or, perhaps, they are trained to empty their magazines? That's a legitimate question, as I don't know. But, it seems that in each of these videos that get posted that is what happens.

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Originally posted by RichardC:

Did we hear eleven shots? Fourteen? Were they all from one source? All 9MM's from state-of-the-art red-dotted, maxi-round-count striker-fired sidearms? Did they all penetrate 14-16" and stop within the soon to be carcass?

To reference Sheriff Grady Judd, after his deputies chased down a cop killer and ended the mans criminal career...

A fugitive gunman accused of killing a Florida sheriff’s deputy was shot 68 times by SWAT team officers who found him hiding in the woods, according to autopsy results.

Police fired 110 shots at Angilo Freeland, 27, the target of a massive manhunt in central Florida following the shooting death of Polk County Sheriff’s Deputy Matt Williams Thursday. “That’s all the bullets we had, or we would have shot him more,” Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd told the Orlando Sentinel newspaper.

Judd said Williams was “executed” after Freeland was pulled over in a routine traffic stop on Thursday. Another deputy was wounded and a police dog killed.

LEOs are trained to stop the threat. As it takes time for the person being shot to react the rounds will continue until the shooter (LEO or Goodguy) perceives the threat is over (stopped).

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Originally posted by Gustofer:

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Originally posted by cslinger:
All I’m saying is it’s easy to say they shot too many times or if they would have had X bigger caliber they would have needed to shoot less but the reality is all of this is happening so fast it takes multiple shots just to realize the threat is down even if the first round decided the event.

Or, perhaps, they are trained to empty their magazines? That's a legitimate question, as I don't know. But, it seems that in each of these videos that get posted that is what happens.

You really believe that’s a possibility?

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Originally posted by Gustofer:

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Originally posted by cslinger:
All I’m saying is it’s easy to say they shot too many times or if they would have had X bigger caliber they would have needed to shoot less but the reality is all of this is happening so fast it takes multiple shots just to realize the threat is down even if the first round decided the event.

Or, perhaps, they are trained to empty their magazines? That's a legitimate question, as I don't know. But, it seems that in each of these videos that get posted that is what happens.

A friend of mine who started as a cop in the 80's told me they sent him out with a loaded revolver and 2 speed loaders. 18 rounds total with a reload every 6.

I asked him about it, and he just said, "it was all about marksmanship"

I'm not sure if he meant marksmanship is less stressed now, but when I see him I'll ask because I'm curious too.

I'm a 33 year LEO. Marksmanship is still taught and stressed in current training. I went through the academy with a S&W Model 66. As soon as possible I was carrying a P228. Why not take advantage of the latest and greatest technology to make my job easier and safer. I carry a SIG P320 DH3 with a Delta Point Pro on it with 21 round mags. I definitely get some looks, even among my fellow deputies, but my qual scores certainly don't suffer.
Again, we are taught to stop the threat. If by the time I realize the threat is over I have emptied my mag, so be it. All I know is that I have one goal when I go to work everyday- Go home with the same number of holes in my body as I started the day with.

Alyron,

Does your agency allow you to choose your sidearm within certain parameters?

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Does your agency allow you to choose your sidearm within certain parameters?

RR-

We have an approved weapons list. (Currently striker fired 9mm's from S&W, H&K, and of course Glock) What's funny is that shortly after I started carrying this Sig they took the P320 off the list, but I am grandfathered in for now. They recently announced they are purchasing and issuing Glock 45's for everybody. Due to the size of my agency (large Sheriff's Office) and my closeness to retiring I don't think I'll be here when it happens.

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Originally posted by Alyron:

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Does your agency allow you to choose your sidearm within certain parameters?

RR-

We have an approved weapons list. (Currently striker fired 9mm's from S&W, H&K, and of course Glock) What's funny is that shortly after I started carrying this Sig they took the P320 off the list, but I am grandfathered in for now. They recently announced they are purchasing and issuing Glock 45's for everybody. Due to the size of my agency (large Sheriff's Office) and my closeness to retiring I don't think I'll be here when it happens.

Interesting. The Glock model 45 does seem to be going into a lot of duty holsters these days! I appreciate the info. Stay safe.