The original Trane XL13i 2-speed heat pump in my house is now 20 years old and I imagine I'll replace it next year or so (if not sooner). While it's functioned fine it still has heat pump drawbacks such as lukewarm air plus higher (and loud inside which is my biggest complaint) airflow coming from the air handler and vents when supplying heat. My previous home had gas heat plus AC and on heat mode the air handler generally ran so slowly it was almost inaudible, but it did ramp up on AC. It was explained by the HVAC company for this house that heat pumps need the extra air velocity on both AC and heat mode. I will add that when not producing heat or cool, when just on "fan on", the variable speed fan is barely audible which is nice. That's where it's set when I have the wood stove going which works well.

OTOH the 1,000' shop I built in 2020 is heated and cooled by a single Carrier mini-split which runs so quiet it can hardly be heard and the air coming out is warm. It also only increased my electric usage by 20% if that. This has me wondering if it could make sense, when I change to consider, mini splits?

The house is 2 story (about 840' per floor) with a central open stairway leading up to an 8' x 8' central hall for 3 bedrooms and one bathroom which each have a register. In addition to a register, the bathroom has a timer controlled resistance electric wall heater. I have to think each bedroom would need to have its own mini split head unit, ideally individually controlled, but not necessarily. The two smaller bedrooms (10' x 12', and 12' x 12') share 4' of a common wall. The bath probably wouldn't need a head as the door's always left open when not in use.

The first floor gathering room/kitchen/dining is all open with the only separate room being a bath/laundry that again has a timer controlled electric wall heater so one head should work for the first floor.

I'll likely deal with the same company (who installed the system in the house when bing built). They seemed to do a nice job sizing the ductwork, and reducing it down. Also sealed the joints and most if not all of it is encapsulated in spray foam. In 20 years I've only had them back twice, once to replace a capacitor and once to replace the fan and bearing (maybe motor as well I can't remember) on the outside compressor unit. In both cases they came right away having the necessary parts with them when they arrived and the cost was fair. If they have a fault it's they tend to be pretty conservative preferring to sell the old tried and true (which is not all bad) but I recall having to really talk them into selling me the variable speed unit I ended up with. So I doubt they'll be recommending anything other than replacing the heat pump I have with a current version.

Thoughts on mini splits for my application? Do they make heat pumps with air handlers now that are much quieter? Maybe not as quiet as the minis but noticeably quieter than what I have? TIA

I should add gas isn't available and I don't want to go with propane.

I've had a Carrier mini-split heat pump system for seven years now.
No issues, and I'm happy with its performance for cooling and heating.
It's also very quiet.

I'm very happy with mini-split systems.

Thanks Bob, now is this in your home? If so does each room need its own head?

Yes, it's in my home.
Ideally, one head per room, but I've got the upper three rooms covered by a single unit. The three doorways are all together at the end of a hall.

I believe the longest run allowed for the lines is 75 feet, so that will dictate the placement of the outside unit.

OK thanks. That would work well in my second floor as well, the only time I'm maybe concerned is when guests stay, we would all have to leave the bedroom doors open for heat.

When the time comes, I would recommend replacing what you have with like equipment.

As a note, mini-splits can be nice, but they can also be a pita.

I have worked on many, been to a few schools on them.

At the end of the day, they are window units with piping.

Yes, for some situations, they are a good option.(remodeling old farm houses), etc. But the materials are overwhelmingly plastic and Styrofoam.

They are very over priced.

Just my humble opinion.

We have them in my house and really like them.

I have a gas fired forced hot water boiler and 7 heads of mini splits.

Originally we bought them for air conditioning, but are also using them now for heating single rooms in the winter.

Keep the FHW in the low 60's and warm the rooms we are in to be comfortable.

This was the best way to add AC to a good size central entrance colonial.

Works the same in the summer, just cool the rooms we are in.

Works great.

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:
When the time comes, I would recommend replacing what you have with like equipment.

As a note, mini-splits can be nice, but they can also be a pita.

I’m thinking this is what I’ll likely end up doing but if so it’ll have to work better and quieter.

 
Installation is important, like any HVAC system. The first mini we had installed the half-wit installer did not angle the hole through the wall properly (not angled at all), so the drip tray did not drain properly.
 
We've since gone with our excellent local company with a great reputation. They install and service only Trane. We have two minis in large single rooms, and a 3 ton unit with three 1 ton heads for the kitchen/great room (1 head in kitchen, 2 in great room). They replaced the mis-installed unit and fixed (angled) the hole. We are very happy with these units and the local installer. On one occasion, I left an after hours message about a problem with one unit (not an emergency). On Monday morning I called after they opened, and they already had a service scheduled for us first thing that morning.

quote:

Originally posted by ridewv:

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:
When the time comes, I would recommend replacing what you have with like equipment.

As a note, mini-splits can be nice, but they can also be a pita.

I’m thinking this is what I’ll likely end up doing but if so it’ll have to work better and quieter.

I agree with Excam. On new construction a mini split can be relatively easy to install. On a retrofit it may be significantly more complicated.

If you are looking for a quieter operating system look into one with a variable speed blower which can slowly ramp up and run at only the force necessary to address the load. These are typically found on the higher efficiency units (18 SEER+). We replaced a 3 ton (14 SEER) Carrier unit last year with an 18 SEER variable speed Trane unit and it is considerably quieter.

The SEER rating of the outside unit has nothing to do with the inside unit having a variable speed blower.

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:

...If you are looking for a quieter operating system look into one with a variable speed blower which can slowly ramp up and run at only the force necessary to address the load. These are typically found on the higher efficiency units (18 SEER+). We replaced a 3 ton (14 SEER) Carrier unit last year with an 18 SEER variable speed Trane unit and it is considerably quieter.

I'm pretty sure the the air handler I have is variable speed but I need to check for sure, maybe it just has two speeds. I know on both heat and AC the fan runs fast and pretty loud until the outside unit shuts off then the fan slows way down to a slow, quiet speed for another 30 seconds or so. Fan on runs at that same slow, quiet speed which is nice.

BTW what 18 SEER variable speed Trane do you have smisig?

We have hydronic heat in a 1966 2500sqft garrison colonial in West Michigan. I installed a 4 head Pioneer unit from Highseer.com and it’s been awesome.

I put an 18K unit in my dining room that shoots into the kitchen and can pretty much turn the main floor over in about 10m or less. (Feels like anyway, as it yanks all the moisture out of the air and brings the temp down.)

I also put in three 9K units in 3 of the 4 bedrooms.

The cost from going to a 5 head unit wasn’t horrible, but enough that coupled with the cooling line trickery needed to get the 4th bedroom cooled, made me just stick with 3 of the 4.

It’s an AWESOME system. We even use the heat in the fall and spring when it’s cold but not cold enough to run the boiler.

The head units are all extremely quiet. I feel like you’d benefit from one of these systems.

Thank you Veeper, you installed it yourself? I don't think I would be capable doing that...... at least correctly.

quote:

Originally posted by ridewv:

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:

...If you are looking for a quieter operating system look into one with a variable speed blower which can slowly ramp up and run at only the force necessary to address the load. These are typically found on the higher efficiency units (18 SEER+). We replaced a 3 ton (14 SEER) Carrier unit last year with an 18 SEER variable speed Trane unit and it is considerably quieter.

I'm pretty sure the the air handler I have is variable speed but I need to check for sure, maybe it just has two speeds. I know on both heat and AC the fan runs fast and pretty loud until the outside unit shuts off then the fan slows way down to a slow, quiet speed for another 30 seconds or so. Fan on runs at that same slow, quiet speed which is nice.

BTW what 18 SEER variable speed Trane do you have smisig?

Just went outside and looked it’s actually a 20 SEER. It is the XV 20i. I also have a propane furnace piggy backed to it for the colder temps we get in the winter.

https://www.trane.com/pdf/TT_7...rochure_Trane_SV.pdf

If you already have good insulated ducting, the central air/heat pump is the way to go. My cinder-block home doesn't have basement ceiling height or wall-cavity space to allow for insulated ducting.

I have 2 Daikin in my house. 3-ton/4-head for main floors and and smaller 1-head for basement area. Mine are rated to work to -15F. Seems to work well at 35F. Variable air speed with horizontal/vertical sweep action and IR sensor to shutdown if no one in rooms. I don't remember BTU of each head.

I had a local guy that used to work for a large HVAC provider. He started his own HVAC business. I provided insulation amounts, window sizes/types, square ft.

Thanks smisig I'll likely go with Trane and I'm making note of your XV20 as a replacement. Thanks for the link!

Bull, yes the ductwork is all insulated in the crawl space. I'm not sure about the trunk up to the second floor and runs between the second floor joists to the floor registers, but that's all conditioned anyway, and no ductwork was run up to the attic.
Glad to hear your two Daikin's are working well for you. As I said I really like how well these mini splits work even down to 0 and below now.

In residential I usually recommend them for basements, bonus rooms and as a “helper” in a problem area

They are becoming popular for apartments and multi family housing
When you two areas to serve and one is significantly smaller a transfer fan in the wall can be used

A large percentage of Asia seems to be pretty happy with them

Carrier has a hi wall that is 40 seer by the way, but I don’t think I’ve sold a single one in 2 year's