Why is it inequitable to require all students to meet some standard?

But, at the same time, part of me doesn't care. If some student gets the participation trophy of a diploma but still doesn't know anything, it probably doesn't hurt me as long as the total fraction of ignoramuses doesn't get too high. We do need ditch diggers, burger flippers, and maids.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
I’d be curious if the standardized high school math tests they use in Korea or Japan were applied here, what would the score distributions look like here vs there. Assuming somewhat controlled populations like just upper middle income areas and kids. Or whatever makes sense.

I’d like to compare their versions of the SAT vs ours.

Well, in many countries (like India) you will find 2 groups... First the "smart" group who were sent to the best schools and whose parents had the means and pushed for a good education.

Second, the rest.

It's becoming the same here in the USA. You will find a bunch of smart kids in the private schools and high end public districts who are learning advanced math, biology and the rest of the STEM topics, and then you will find every one else.

Look at where the kids from wealth go to school in Washington DC and the Bay Area. It ain't the public schools, and these kids are learning just fine.

quote:

Originally posted by sgalczyn:
The labor pool of sanitation workers and crop pickers will increase exponentially.

Work? These people will be collecting Universal Basic Income along with EBT and other benefits. No need to work, just vote right.

quote:

Originally posted by Blackmore:

quote:

Originally posted by sgalczyn:
The labor pool of sanitation workers and crop pickers will increase exponentially.

Work? These people will be collecting Universal Basic Income along with EBT and other benefits. No need to work, just vote right.

The original concept of a UBI is to eliminate EBT and all the other govt supplementary benefits, streamline the process. You get a check from Big Gov to survive and that's it.
Naturally, the course of how the Left operates is that nothing is ever eliminated, so UBI really just end up adding to the pile of .gov hand-outs and overall capitol getting poured into social welfare programs continues to rise.

I remember a day when the thinking was that the labor force will need to increasingly skilled and intelligent over time as automation becomes increasingly prevalent.

Seems like it's actually the opposite - we need automation to become more prevalent as the labor force becomes increasingly lazy, unskilled and less intelligent.

Sounds like utopia. Well done democrats, well done.

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:
But I know that is a sterotype about like yours bigdeal.

That's not 'my' stereotype, that's the message being clearly sent by the actions of these morons in control in Oregon. Black and brown kids are inferior to white and asian kids, so they have to give them a pass and not hold them responsible for their failings. This is utterly disgusting behavior by people who are supposed to have the kids best interests at heart.

To some degree, it doesn't matter that these standards are not met. Once the student gets into the real world of work, they will quickly find their "level". In other words, they will have to compete with other workers and will be judged by their skills.

My experience was I didn't really study in high school. Then I worked at a menial task type job the first year out of high school.

I got tired of the menial task job and went to college. I got good grades in college and got a very good position with my degree.

This is why I think high school standards don't matter. The motivation and capability of the student is the most important success factor.

quote:

Originally posted by Cabellocabeza:
To some degree, it doesn't matter that these standards are not met. Once the student gets into the real world of work, they will quickly find their "level". In other words, they will have to compete with other workers and will be judged by their skills.

My experience was I didn't really study in high school. Then I worked at a menial task type job the first year out of high school.

I got tired of the menial task job and went to college. I got good grades in college and got a very good position with my degree.

This is why I think high school standards don't matter. The motivation and capability of the student is the most important success factor.

True, but if you lack basic skills, like the ability to read, do math, and have some basic knowledge of the world, you start in a hole even if you later develop motivation and have the capacity.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by Cabellocabeza:
To some degree, it doesn't matter that these standards are not met. Once the student gets into the real world of work, they will quickly find their "level". In other words, they will have to compete with other workers and will be judged by their skills.

My experience was I didn't really study in high school. Then I worked at a menial task type job the first year out of high school.

I got tired of the menial task job and went to college. I got good grades in college and got a very good position with my degree.

This is why I think high school standards don't matter. The motivation and capability of the student is the most important success factor.

True, but if you lack basic skills, like the ability to read, do math, and have some basic knowledge of the world, you start in a hole even if you later develop motivation and have the capacity.

One of my friends is a school teacher. She showed me some of the test material her school used. The test was based on the Common Core approach. I could always get the right answer but I got the answer the wrong way. The "not Common Core way".

So I think that one of the complicating factors in the situation is that Common Core, as a method of standardized testing, has serious flaws. As a result of the flaws with Common Core, students that have a good grasp of the basics of math or English, still fail the test becuase they don't grasp the Common Core way.

Saying that what we don’t learn in high school doesn’t matter is a somewhat self-fulfilling prophecy. I’m always amused, for example, when someone says he’s never had any use for the algebra he didn’t learn there. Well, guess what? If someone never learned a subject, it’s obvious that he will never use it later. I, however, learned algebra in high school and I use it fairly regularly along with bits of geometry and trigonometry.

To cite another example, for someone like a police officer having poor English language skills means that he will spend more of his time and be more frustrated while trying to write acceptable reports, and will get bitched at a lot more by his supervisors. Both of those things will have an adverse effect on his career. If he stays in law enforcement and can’t find a way to get out of writing reports, he will ultimately be required to learn through experience the things he should have learned in high school, but it will be a difficult, unpleasant process. He will also very likely never become as good a report writer as he could have if he’d learned the lessons earlier and more completely.

Do people get by without knowing what they should/could have learned in high school? Of course. Do they very often suffer to some degree due to that ignorance? Of course, but perhaps that’s most obvious to those of us who came away from the experience with a bit more than the average person.

Idiocracy was supposed to be a comedy not a roadmap for liberal politicians.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
I’d be curious if the standardized high school math tests they use in Korea or Japan were applied here, what would the score distributions look like here vs there. Assuming somewhat controlled populations like just upper middle income areas and kids. Or whatever makes sense.

I’d like to compare their versions of the SAT vs ours.

Current high school students in many areas could not pass 8th grade tests used in the early 1900s (and many college graduates couldn't either). Education in the US has really degraded.

flashguy

The primary difference between public and private schools is parental involvement.
If you’re paying for it, you’re involved, and kids get pushed. Pushing kids to do their best is probably a racist thought now.
If we could get to personal choice of where your kids went to school and the tax dollars followed - there would be improvement or like businesses, the school would and should close.

quote:

Originally posted by ScooterX:
The primary difference between public and private schools is parental involvement.
If you’re paying for it, you’re involved, and kids get pushed. Pushing kids to do their best is probably a racist thought now.
If we could get to personal choice of where your kids went to school and the tax dollars followed - there would be improvement or like businesses, the school would and should close.

I agree with you, but the teacher's Unions are just too strong in the public schools. Someone needs to put those unions in their place.

quote:

giving them a piece of paper indicating graduation which no longer means proficiency is helping them

think of it as a 'participation trophy'

re:"we need automation to become more prevalent as the labor force becomes increasingly lazy, unskilled and less intelligent."
that seems pretty accurate observation

It is laughable. I am bemused by the stupidity of it all.

If the citizens of that state want it who cares.

The real problem for us all is that Oregon's idiotic indoctrination centers are producing...voters.

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Originally posted by AKSuperDually:
The real problem for us all is that Oregon's idiotic indoctrination centers are producing...voters.

Worse - voters that will eventually migrate and infect other States.

Sounds like she's devalued Oregon high school diplomas...and colleges will take that into consideration when NOT admitting students from Oregon...and employers will consider Oregon HS diplomas worthless (another participation trophy for attending class 70% of the time over 4 years).

Amazing.