If so, when ? As long as he gets fed , has water and shade. When is this a problem? What are the rules? I heard a some people admonishing one of their neighbors.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bendable,

Growing up we did this all the time, as nobody had fences in the neighborhood. When it wanted to come it, the dog scratched at the door and was let it.

As long as the animal has water and shade, it's fine.

Sure, All dogs are not created equal. Some dogs are prone to wander. That leads to serious issues generally.
So as not to leave them for extended periods. Like all day or multiple days or all the time is not good.
Also barkers are an issue. Some tied up outside will bark non stop. So that too is a huge issue. Not everyone can tend to a dog all the time. So tying one up is fine if done the right way.

But as one can only imagine this is a real can of worms.

But in answer to your question in general I am ok with it if done with compassion and done the right way.

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:
But in answer to your question in general I am ok with it if done with compassion and done the right way.

Which means, as RHINOWSO suggested, as long as it has water and shade--as well as getting fed, has shelter from the elements, isn't left out in the freezing cold, isn't otherwise neglected, etc.

Dogs are pack animals, social creatures, much like humans.

Generally speaking - all most dogs want is just to be with their pack, their people, their family.

About the "worst" (non-violent) thing you can do to most dogs is keep them *just* out of reach of the pack / family, like (a) kept outside always, or worse... (b) keeping them tied up outside.

For brief periods, sure, I suppose there's no harm, especially on a beautiful day in an unfenced yard, to do their business or lounge about.

My general opinion, however, is that if you (the universal) aren't going to fully welcome the dog into the lives of the owner, and let it live (overwhelmingly) inside, then they probably shouldn't have a dog.

Some people don't want a friend or family member, they want an accessory or lawn ornament.

Fuck those people.

Anyway, sometimes is fine, for limited periods, under indirect supervision. Otuerwise I find it leaning toward cruel and unnecessary and generally antithetical to having a dog in the first place.

(Queue a few who talk about their outside dogs who love it.)

Edge cases, those.

Dogs want to be with you. They need social interaction. You're not outside all the time, and your dog shouldn't be, either. Dogs that are just chucked outside and ignored tend to become nervous, anxious, and even aggressive. They don't like it and it drives them nuts.

My concern with tied up dogs without a fence is coyotes and dogs in packs. A tied up dog has very limited mobility and is at a disadvantage if attacked.

Some dogs are diggers and fences don't contain them. In that case, I can see a the zip-line type connection where the dog has a lot of freedom of mobility, won't dig their way out, and has protection from other animals. All of this is assuming the zip line allows the dog to get to water and shade.

We put ours on a long lead when we're in the front yard, mostly because she wants to play with every dog that walks by & can seem to be aggressive with how quickly she closes distance.

She's broken the buckle on 1 lead & snapped the stitching on her harness with the heavier lead we replaced the broken lead.

We don't leave her tied out unattended.

30-40 + years ago, all dog owners, at least the ones my family knew in the various places we lived, tied up their dogs outside...that was the norm. In fact, our dogs never came inside, inside was for our cat.

As a young boy, one of the scariest sound I ever heard, was being woken in the middle of the night to the fire station siren blaring from the center of our a little rural town a few miles away...the siren was scary enough, but what really got to me were all the neighborhood dogs tied up outside howling together.

Our family dog was also my Dad's bird dog and hunting partner, and, living in an area that saw triple digit Summer heat and long sub-freezing temps with snow on the ground from early Fall to mid Spring, my Dad decided that our dog (and later, my dog came along) needed better accommodations. Our dog was an escape artist so we built a pen with 6' fencing. Then built a big dog house, used left over insulation to insulate, ran a dedicated extension cord from our barn to the doghouse and left a shop lamp on inside the dog house that put out good heat, and the door was covered with burlap. Hell, when I could fit, I used to crawl into the dog house with our dog.

One of my many chores was to make the long walk taking food and water to our dogs every day, hot or cold, often in the dark.

Our dogs were important to us, and were loved and well cared for, but it was unthinkable to have a dog living in a house back then, and I still shake my head when I see how many people have elevated pets to the point where they ride in cars on their laps or take them into stores or public places, and don't get me started on pets flying in passenger cabins.

Our dogs spent time outside the pen, playing in the back yard and hunting. One of our dogs used to love pulling a sled through our neighborhood with my sister and I on the back. We used to take them on frequent walks through the neighborhood.

There is nothing wrong with a well cared for dog being either tied up or penned in outside, as long as they aren't constantly barking, and as long as the owners (no, I'm not going to call pet owners "pet parents"), interact with them on a regular basis.

There are many dogs that I would rather spend time with rather than some people...but they are dogs, animals... not people.

We have a situation in our neighborhood with a neighbor who leaves her dog out all the time.
It constantly barks however it is a small dog so it is not that loud. I have been told animal control has been called several times but they can't do anything because the dog is not in distress and is being taken care of.

They have been spoken to by several neighbors about this and it appears they do not care. I think English is a second language to them and maybe the do not understand. This may be normal where they are originally from.
This has been going on most of the winter and summer is coming soon. Living in central Florida winters are mild but summers are extremely hot.
Hopefully they understand this and make sure the dog has plenty of water and shade. If not animal control will be called multiple times from many people in the neighborhood.

The thing I will never understand is when people bring a pet into their family and then don't treat like a family member.
Years ago my wife and I had two dogs, we never had children so our dogs were our children and were treated as such. Even if we had children our dogs would have been treated as such. Maybe better

Semi occasionally, I will leash my Jack Russell on a 10' lead in the front yard on a nice warm sunny day for an hour so she can lie down and relax. She has free rein in the backyard since it is fenced and secured, but the front is a nice change of pace for her.

If you are outside with them and just need to keep them from wandering off then I think it's acceptable. People that leave them out unattended like that I have no use for. Just like the guys who have them in the pickup bed doing 90 down the highway.
If you don't have a place for a dog please don't have a dog.

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
Anyway, sometimes is fine, for limited periods, under indirect supervision. Otuerwise I find it leaning toward cruel and unnecessary and generally antithetical to having a dog in the first place.

That's part of what I meant by "otherwise neglected."

Even in a big, fenced-in yard, just leaving a dog out there on its own is abuse, IMO. My mother did that. Dog was otherwise well cared-for, but was mainly out there all alone . Drove me nuts. I could never understand why she wanted a dog if she was just going to leave it outside on its own nearly all the time.

The dog was a really pretty female Husky, too. Friendly. Smart. Playful. One day I guess the dog got fed up with it, cuz she got out and was never seen again. I always hoped she'd found a good family and was happy.

Thankfully, my mother didn't go out and get another dog.

I like dogs, but I'm not the type that would be good about giving them the kind of companionship, attention, exercise, etc. they need. So, while I'm tempted, from time-to-time, I know it would be better if I didn't. So I don't.

As a side dog trainer, I loathe this. Just as much as I loathe people just leaving the dog in the backyard to bark incessantly. My k9's are supervised 100% of the time. Either with me or supervised outside. If it's to the point of leaving it unattended and chained up I don't know why you have it in the first place.

Times have definitely changed, as I don't see many dogs chained up - but I do see / hear plenty of them outside in their backyards all day - which is essentially the same thing.

Some people have 'outside dogs' - and believe it or not, dogs have lived outside for THOUSANDS of years. This is not nearly as common today, but for rural areas, etc it can still be.

As long as the dog is cared for with water / food / shelter, it is fine.

Depends, but probably fine as long as it properly provided for and not neglected.

That said, we had a rescue dog we kept for years and I did everything I could to make him comfortable. When we found him he was staked out and we know he didn't get water or food every day and had no shelter. His nose was cracked and bleeding from sunburn and his coat was matted and nasty, needing a trim. He was mean and would bite anyone except my wife, who tended to him, and would wander off if let loose. After we asked for him and got him from his former owner he stayed in an 8 x 10 cage that was covered for rain protection and he had a heated dog house inside that. I cleaned the cage and kept wood shavings down. The cage was under shade trees and the cage was wrapped on three sides in the winter with tarps. EVERY day he got human interaction, fed and watered and was put out on a 25 foot leash that ran on a 120 foot lead line during the day, he could also access his food and water and doghouse while out on the run line. Personally I wouldn't do anything less, and I'm not a dog person...

for limited durations I say yes

as a standard method of living -- 12 hours a day + / every day -- I say no

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We have our dog on a long lead when we are outside in the yard.

when we come in he follows and we take the lead off

quote:

I can see a the zip-line type connection where the dog has a lot of freedom of mobility, won't dig their way out, and has protection from other animals. All of this is assuming the zip line allows the dog to get to water and shade.

I have this set up. It's a 65' cable that runs between two large trees in the back yard with a pulley and a 10' lead-line from the cable. The dog goes outside when it's nice, or when I'm out too, but is never left alone for more than a few hours at a time.

Fencing in the back yard wasn't that hard or expensive. The zip line idea seems like it could work, but many small outside kennels and short staked lines seem cruel.