It's not often that I seek input on policy from forum members, but I am quite torn on a vertain issue.

If your item for sale is listed on another board and you are not a dealer, do not post your item here

I created that post more than eleven years ago It seems longer ago than that, because enforcing this policy has been a near-daily struggle, and guys, I gotta tell you- I am tired.

It just doesn't stop. This policy is violated all the time. Week after week after week.

The rationale is sound. The policy arose from actual problems caused by sellers listing their items both here and elsewhere, and occasionally, members of this forum would get an item they wanted, sold after they had expressed interest.

Therefore, if an item is listed here only, this should not be an issue.

In the 11+ years since this policy was established there have been thousands upon thousands of sales. There is no way for me to know, of course, how many times this policy has prevented problems. The overwhelming majority of users of our marketplace are ethical, compliant, well-behaved and kind.

There is a certain percentage of members who either are unaware of the policy (although, they should, since it's been pinned to the top of Classifieds for years), or who are aware of the rule and who flaunt it.

I can gauge to a fair degree who falls into which category- and let me say thank you to those who honestly seem to be ignorant of this policy and who, when informed of it, are polite and apologetic. I really appreciate that. It makes things so much easier.

Whichever category the offenders fall into, the question at this point is, is it really worth it to continue to enforce this policy? The amount of effort and back-and-forth that goes into enforcing it- it just doesn't seem worth it anymore. Again, the idea is a sound one, but...

And guys, when you get right down to it, no matter whether a member is aware of the rule or not when they break it, all I'm doing at this point is beating up on people, and I don't want to do that. It just doesn't seem worth it anymore. I want people to enjoy this place and I don't want to play the tough son of a bitch every day.

So, even though the decision is mine, I ask your thoughts on the matter.

Is there a mid point. Maybe make posters actually type out " I promise my stuff is not listed elsewhere and I understand that violation of this policy may result in my termination"

would that kill off the honest slip ups and leave only the true losers to beat up on? At least your punches would be hitting more intended targets, less friendly fire if you will

Close the classifieds for a couple months. This will see how the forum does without it. I suspect it will do just fine. If it becomes a problem, re open it and remove the rule.

I am not very active in the Classified section, but I believe I absolutely understand why that has been your policy, i.e., basically to prevent inconveniencing members and that’s leading to animosity and complaints.

On the other hand, if I don’t know how common similar policies are on other Internet forums, it wouldn’t apply in other places where items are offered for sale. If I put an ad in the local paper that wouldn’t prevent me from selling the item in any other venues. Even commercial businesses aren’t bound by anything similar: “Sorry; already sold,” doesn’t obligate them to explain how or why it was sold and whether it was to someone who answered their advertisement. If I understand correctly, you already make that exception for businesses here.

This forum is obviously different in many ways from those examples, but that fundamental principle is pretty close, I believe. And even if it weren’t, I don’t believe you have the obligation to try to prevent every possible issue that might inconvenience or offend someone. I can only dimly imagine what monitoring a forum like this is, but that’s enough to say, “Yeah: You don’t need that along with everything else that’s necessary to keep the wheels on.”

All I would do if the decision were mine and based on what little I can imagine about your efforts here would be to encourage sellers to immediately change their ads to reflect when they’re sold.

But to make clear even though I do not use the Classified section very often, I believe it is a valuable part of the forum.

This is the only forum I post on where I don’t cross post items. Except those that are made to order as it’s a moot point there.

I don’t think it’s a real problem, whether you’re second to an item here or elsewhere, you’re still second.

I understand the intent behind it, to not waste forum members’ time, but at the end of the day you’re not out anything really.

Folks should be courteous enough to mark things sold no matter where it sold though.

It’s difficult to believe the average member here isn’t aware of the rule — especially since it’s pinned right at the top of the page.

That policy exists for a good reason. It’s one of the things that makes the classifieds on SigForum stand out — when someone says “I’ll take it,” there’s a 99% chance the item is theirs. Simple and reliable.

I really appreciate the effort it takes to keep that standard in place and hope it continues.

What about requiring posters to disclose one or the other?

1) This item is only being offered for sale here at this time.

2) This item is also listed for sale on 1 or more other sites.

How about a rule that cross posting is not allowed until the item has been on SIGforum for a week? It would e equally hard to enforce but I think it helps preserve the intent of your original rule Para. Another possibility might be that posting an item for sale on gunbroker, eBay etc. is allowable but not on another forum. It’s generally pretty hard to miss what’s going on with an item you have listed for sale on one of those venues but it’s absolutely possible, heck probable, to lose track of items that you have listed on numerous forums. I don’t have strong feelings either way as I usually don’t post firearms items at least on any other forum but this one because I don’t visit any other forum as often as I visit here. Just my $0.02, but since you asked for input, it’s what popped into my head.

Changing the rules to, for example, require mentioning whether something is offered for sale elsewhere or specifying a period after which when something can offered elsewhere simply changes what must be monitored.
If I were in the position I would not see either as lessening the burden of keeping up with it.

I had no idea it was such a burden for you, Para, and I thought you were getting help from other members monitoring as well!

Since I'm not on any other forums at all, I can't offer that help, either.

All I can say, and I don't pretend it's that important in light of this issue, is that I check Classifieds every day, looking for stuff, and the reassurance of The Eagle Eye hovering-over gives me great assurance. I guess demanding exclusivity isn't that important to me in relation to the burden on you.

Hope this helps.

It is unfortunate that you have had to "police" such a simple and self evident rule.

It has always been obvious to me why it is done this way here.

I have had nothing but outstanding experiences with members here.

Purchased many things and sold a few, and always without hassle. (but it was always last place to interacting with the people here and the great time and memories afforded me.)

I believe that it is, in great part, due to your way of dealing with the whole of the classifieds.
No matter what, I support your decision in the matter.

And I do understand your not wanting to "fight with people" in a place you deserve to enjoy.

That's just a kick in the balls for your goodwill.

quote:

Originally posted by rizzle:
Close the classifieds for a couple months. This will see how the forum does without it. I suspect it will do just fine. If it becomes a problem, re open it and remove the rule.

I think this is probably for the best.

This forum is definitely a labor of love on your part, Para. Your house, your rules, and it sounds like Classifieds have become more the labor than the love. I think I'm vacillating between Timdogg6 (statement affirming they are not cross-posting, which would be easy to weed out the blatantly dishonest/ uninformed folks) and rizzle (close the classifieds). Either option would reduce your workload by at least a little bit.

Full disclosure, Classifieds aren't something I regularly look at. I think I've only bought things from there a couple of times (experience was good), so either of the above wouldn't impact me.

I’ve really appreciated the policy because it adds an extra level of security in my mind. With that in mind, we have several well known dealers who have sold on the website for years with unquestionable customer service and ethics. I’d hate to see them lose a stream of revenue, especially when the economy is facing uncertainty for the near future. I’d suggest that if you close it for a time, we only do it for personal sales and allow our reputable dealers continual access during this time.

Going forward, you may want new members to acknowledge the policy before they receive posting rights.

quote:

Originally posted by newtoSig765:
I had no idea it was such a burden for you, Para, and I thought you were getting help from other members monitoring as well!

I do get help from other members, and my lament is not intended to slight them in any way, but I do also find on my own, members who are violating this policy, and whether I find them myself or not, I am the one who has to get tough if push comes to shove.

The straw that broke the camel's back for me is enforcing the policy when it's clear a member means no harm.

Here is an example. This member answered honestly, and it's clear he was simply unaware of the rule https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...0601935/m/9900050515

It's apparent he meant no harm, and that includes his use of Classifieds alone. Shortly, he'll get a message from me that he is welcome here. Along the way, over the years, I have lost sight of what I'm trying to accomplish. I just don't want to push around people who don't deserve pushing around. It's wrong and I have to change some things. Dealing with this one issue over and over has caused me to lose my patience more quickly than is warranted when it comes up.

This is not to say that you'll see me stop breathing thunder when it's called for, but when it is called for is the real question.

It has been many moons since I have transacted in the classifieds anywhere, but you and SF has impressed upon me that this is the only place online that has consistently been monitored with an iron fist. No matter how much effort you put in, there will always be a few who attempt to circumvent your system. You have proven to stand behind anyone who has been scammed by providing specific contact info on the scammers. That should be understood and appreciated by all who log in.

This goes hand-in-hand with your price gouging policy over the years during changes in elected political philosophies that significantly sway the market on certain items. You have always been the shepherd (at least since I have been a member), and it has been appreciated by all who have been following SF for any considerable duration.

Only thing I can can add, as a business owner, is that I seemingly understand the burden you must carry for all involved. This must be a never-ending daily challenge to you. At some point, which a previous poster mentioned thought was already in place, I believe you should delegate proven trusted members to assist in this aspect of the forum. You would always retain the power of the veto if things should get unruly, but would keep the classifieds alive. This would not completely alleviate all associated headaches, but you would have far fewer incidents in which you personally have to contend.

Thanks for the many years of sharing your time and resources, Para.

ETA: I missed your most current post while replying. You understand how that goes. If memory serves, you have implemented policies in the past that restricted members from posting in the classifieds until they have adequately established an interest in SF outside of making a buck. For your own peace of mind, do what ya gotta do.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
I don’t think it’s a real problem, whether you’re second to an item here or elsewhere, you’re still second.

I understand the intent behind it, to not waste forum members’ time, but at the end of the day you’re not out anything really.

Folks should be courteous enough to mark things sold no matter where it sold though.

Agreed.

If the only negative result that you're preventing is the slight disappointment of a prospective buyer if they find they're the runner-up and someone else got to it first on another site, then I don't think it's worth the time, effort, and headache of constantly policing it.

The juice isn't worth the squeeze.

Now, if the seller isn't monitoring their ads or isn't responding in a timely manner, because they shotgunned their ad all over the web and can't keep track of which ads are still active, that's a different matter where you can step in.

I think the statement whether it was cross posted or not would suffice.

And this one: https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...0010515&r=2170060515

He'll be surprised for sure. But Para, he knew he was violating the policy. Yes, but at least he didn't throw a fit.

A) I haven’t bought anything in the classifieds in a long time, and I think that was some PSP mags from a dealer.

Maybe let dealers have an area, and then only members with X years of membership can sell?

B) I do plan on listing some watches for sale, but I was planning to “post them for a week, then pull them and sell them in Chrono, if no regulars are interested.