quote:

I’ve been using Vctor brand Hi-Pro. Both my German Shorthair and Yorkie do great on it. I can only find it a Rural King stores though so I’m not sure about your neck of the woods.

This is what I use, and had never heard of it prior. Upon doing some research, it was mentioned here on the forum in the past with great reviews. It is what my breeder fed her dogs, and what she had already started the puppies on.

They tend to prefer farm type stores as retailers. In addition to Rural King we can find it at other similar stores as well as the local farmer's COOP.

We fed our 8 y.o. yellow lab Orijen from the time she was a pup until recently. A few months ago, our vet recommended we go away from a grain free diet, so we have been transitioning to a Performatrin Senior formula. But prior to all the issues with grain free, we had good luck with the Orijen.

I was wondering if that “study” would come up here, and it looks like it has.

The issue at heart of this so called study is taurine deficiencies, and the main culprit in the grain free foods is the use of potatoes, legumes and various peas for the most part...used as fillers (instead of grains). A lot of people are misunderstanding what the study is saying and they’re thinking that the inclusion of grains specifically are what’s going to prevent the heart problems. This is simply not true, and the study is very misleading because of this. It’s all about taurine deficiencies.

It was also exposed that the study was paid for by the big dog food brands (ie Purina etc) and the vets that endorsed the study are likewise paid by those same companies.

This is a big reason why I recommended a raw diet. You can feed a grain free diet and don’t have to worry about taurine deficiencies (main source of taurine is meat).

I wish vets would stop pushing that study as gospel. You’d be surprised at how little vets actually know about canine nutrition. If they knew any better (and didn’t care about making as much money as possible) they wouldn’t be trying to push brands such as Science Diet (most of their foods are considered bottom barrel due to the types of fillers they use).

Dog food adviser is an excellent source to use for research. They judge based on ingredients, and they do know a thing or two about canine nutrition.

I have a borzoi, it is classified as a giant breed, not sure if this is also in the large breed category. She said never feed a giant breed large breed puppy food. If I remember correctly they could grow too fast and cause joint and bone problems.

quote:

Originally posted by BadDogPSD:
The issue I have with the dog food advisor is that they rate foods based on ingredients, but dont have the nutritional education as to what nutrition dogs need.
They is a strong link to some of the newer boutique type foods, especially grain free, and heart issues with dogs.
Purina, Royal Canin, and Science Diet are 3 dog food companies that actually have nutritionists on staff help develop the dog foods. They also all do long term feeding trials.

Ha. Nice try, Big DogFood.

Show us the science.

Most Vets don't know shit about dog food, beyond hawking it for profit.

Orijen is good and have used it for many years.

Lately I have transitioned over to Dr. Tims and Annamaet and have moved away from grain free foods....and will do so for awhile until more is known.

I feed mine Fromm Family foods.

It takes less of it by volume, they have smaller and firmer shits, and their coat is better.

Feeding your dogs Purina or the like is akin to feeding them McDonald's every meal for their entire life.

Sure, you *can*, but why would you...

A couple years ago my wife and I decided that even the best rated dog foods, costing about $100 a bag,was still garbage.
A lot of the food that is sold to humans is garbage what would you expect they use in Dog food.
We have been making our own for a couple years.
5 large sweet potatoes
couple pounds of carrots
package of beets
half jar of peanut butter
dozen eggs
1 large can of pumpkin
1/4 cup of whole black pepper
8# of Costco 80/20 ground beef
6 apples
5 bananas
any fat and carvings from meat,chicken,or ham I have saved
1/2 gallon of whole milk
2 1/2# of Quaker oats

Most everything is run through the food processor.

My two dogs,an Airedale and a Boxer love it. They get a healthy serving around noon. They have dry food available to munch on through out the day, but only occasionally snack on it. At night we give them table scraps.

We are happy because we feel they are eating better.

Get an industrial vacuum cleaner next. I have a buddy that has one and it's a great dog.

quote:

Originally posted by BadDogPSD:
The issue I have with the dog food advisor is that they rate foods based on ingredients, but dont have the nutritional education as to what nutrition dogs need.
They is a strong link to some of the newer boutique type foods, especially grain free, and heart issues with dogs.
Purina, Royal Canin, and Science Diet are 3 dog food companies that actually have nutritionists on staff help develop the dog foods. They also all do long term feeding trials.

Those are three of the worst dog foods, many/most have corn or other high allergy grains as the main ingredients. I don't know anyone who argues that dogs need corn in their diet.

I'd never recommend those.

Here is an example of Royal Canin Large Breed which I wouldn't feed my dogs. By-Product meal as the main ingredient along with wheat and corn gluten meal...

Chicken By-Product Meal, Brewers Rice, Wheat, Brown Rice, Chicken Fat, Corn Gluten Meal, Natural Flavors, Dried Plain Beet Pulp, Fish Oil, Calcium Carbonate, Monocalcium Phosphate, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Sodium Silico Aluminate, Choline Chloride, L-Lysine, Vitamins [Dl-Alpha Tocopherol Acetate (Source Of Vitamin E), L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (Source Of Vitamin C), Biotin, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Niacin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid], Trace Minerals [Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Copper Proteinate], Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Dl-Methionine, Chondroitin Sulfate, Rosemary Extract, Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols And Citric Acid.

As opposed to a quality food that is much cheaper in price (American Journey)...

Deboned Lamb, Lamb Meal, Brown Rice, Peas, Pea Protein, Rice Bran, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Brewers Rice, Barley, Natural Flavor, Turkey Meal, Tomato Pomace, Suncured Alfalfa Meal, Flaxseed, Fish Oil, Dried Plain Beet Pulp, Dried Egg Product, Carrots, Oatmeal, Sweet Potatoes, Dicalcium Phosphate, Salt, Potassium Chloride, L-Threonine, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine, Blueberries, Cranberries, Dried Kelp, Taurine, Dried Chicory Root, Mixed Tocopherols (Preservative), Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Amino Acid Complex, Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Ferrous Sulfate, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Zinc Oxide, Copper Amino Acid Complex, Copper Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Vitamin A Supplement, Niacin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Manganous Oxide, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, Rosemary Extract.

We feed Fromm 4-Star to our GSD. I think it’s good. Fromm makes a couple of different puppy formulations.

quote:

Originally posted by TMats:
We feed Fromm 4-Star to our GSD. I think it’s good. Fromm makes a couple of different puppy formulations.

Fromm is an outstanding food. That is what we fed until Chewy.com wasn't allowed to sell it anymore. You can't go wrong with Fromm.

I was looking at Victor's website and noticed they don't recommend their Hi-Pro Plus for the growth stage of breeds expected to be over 70lbs. They recommend their Professional for those dogs in that stage.

I've had no trouble finding it at feed stores in 4 different states. It's $50 or so for a 50lb bag.

Link

"Full ingredient list:
Beef Meal, Grain Sorghum, Whole Grain Millet, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols), Blood Meal, Chicken Meal, Pork Meal, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Yeast Culture, Natural Flavor, Potassium Chloride, Carrot Powder, Tomato Pomace (source of Lycopene), Taurine, Salt, Choline Chloride, Dried Seaweed Meal, Zinc Methionine Complex, Vitamin E Supplement, Hydrolyzed Yeast, Iron Amino Acid Complex, Calcium Carbonate, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Ferrous Sulfate, L-Carnitine, Selenium Yeast, Copper Sulfate, Niacin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Biotin, Riboflavin Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Powdered Cellulose, Brewers Dried Yeast, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Trichoderma Longibrachiatum Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Silicon Dioxide, Tetra Sodium Pyrophosphate, Vegetable Oil, Rosemary Extract, Green Tea Extract, Spearmint Extract, Lecithin, Fructooligosaccharide, Folic Acid, Yucca Schidigera Extract"

Check the ingredients just as you would for your human food.

Avoid corn, wheat, soy and by-products and you’ll be fine.

quote:

Originally posted by Dzozer:

quote:

Originally posted by Tejas421:
We've been happy with Nutro and Hills Science Diet for our puppies.

Yes, Hills Science Diet large breed puppy was the go to food for our Kangal when she was a pup - I'm not sure about your large breed, but as they generally grow more slowly, the really potent puppy foods gave her bad growing pains. Our Vet recommended the Hills and its been good.

Hills Science diet here also.

Another Fromm user. Our 4 y.o. chocolate lab does very well on it.

Like 08 Cayenne, my Golden Retriever breeder said not to give puppy food to my puppy. It makes them grow too fast and is very hard on their joints.
Rod

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by Dzozer:

quote:

Originally posted by Tejas421:
We've been happy with Nutro and Hills Science Diet for our puppies.

Yes, Hills Science Diet large breed puppy was the go to food for our Kangal when she was a pup - I'm not sure about your large breed, but as they generally grow more slowly, the really potent puppy foods gave her bad growing pains. Our Vet recommended the Hills and its been good.

Hills Science diet here also.

Science Diet is some of the worst food. Here are the ingredients for their large breed dog food. You should not be feeding corn, wheat or soy to your dog. Science Diet has all three.

The first or main ingredients should be quality meat preferably a meat 'meal' of some sort. When it says Chicken or Lamb that means it has the water weight in it and the water weight moves it higher in the ingredient list due to the water volume. Meat meal is without the water weight so you're only getting the meat protein and not all the water.

Example of Science Diet Large Breed...

INGREDIENTS: Chicken, Cracked Pearled Barley, Whole Grain Wheat, Whole Grain Corn, Whole Grain Sorghum, Corn Gluten Meal, Soybean Meal, Chicken Fat, Brewers Rice, Chicken Liver Flavor, Chicken Meal, Dried Beet Pulp, Soybean Oil, Pork Flavor, Lactic Acid, Calcium Carbonate, Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Iodized Salt, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Niacin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Oat Fiber, Mixed Tocopherols for freshness, Natural Flavors, Beta-Carotene, Apples, Broccoli, Carrots, Cranberries, Green Peas.

Several folks have stated that "Vet's don't know anything" about nutrition. I notice that many also state that the main ingredients should be meat, which parrots exactly the websites of all the high end brands being mentioned. So how is that different than a Vet recommending a brand they sell?

I can only go by my own experience - I fed my dog the grain free dog foods and she had health issues. My Vet said use Science Diet - the health issues went away.

quote:

Originally posted by Dzozer:
Several folks have stated that "Vet's don't know anything" about nutrition. I notice that many also state that the main ingredients should be meat, which parrots exactly the websites of all the high end brands being mentioned. So how is that different than a Vet recommending a brand they sell?

I can only go by my own experience - I fed my dog the grain free dog foods and she had health issues. My Vet said use Science Diet - the health issues went away.

The vets recommend Science Diet and Royal Canin because there are huge incentives for them to recommend those foods. Science Diet is sold in many vet clinics because it is expensive and a huge profit for vets.

Look at the list of ingredients in my post above yours. It has Chicken listed as the first ingredient but that is only because it is using the volume of water in the chicken to get it that high. If that were chicken meal it wouldn't be nearly as high in the ingredient list and the main ingredients would all be poor quality grains.

I'm not opposed to grains and I don't feed grain free to my dogs. The grains in the food should never be corn, wheat, or soy.