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Almost as Fast as a Speeding Bullet |
Sigolicious, I don't have a dog in this fight but I am well versed in parsing out manuals and government-speak. The word "enhance" seems to indicate that a good seal can be achieved with a beard, being clean shaven will just make it better. Now, if I was in an NBC environment I'd take the first layer of skin off to get a close shave to achieve that enhanced protection, but...does that manual have the same status as a regulation? ______________________________________________ Aeronautics confers beauty and grandeur, combining art and science for those who devote themselves to it. . . . The aeronaut, free in space, sailing in the infinite, loses himself in the immense undulations of nature. He climbs, he rises, he soars, he reigns, he hurtles the proud vault of the azure sky. — Georges Besançon | |||
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Member |
If it comes to that, the proper question to him would be: Can I have your (insert the item you want here)? Sic Semper Tyrannis If you beat your swords into plowshares, you will become farmers for those who didn't! Political Correctness is fascism pretending to be Manners-George Carlin | |||
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Mark1Mod0Squid |
If you hear......GAS GAS GAS.......The time to find out weather your seal is as "enhanced" in real world as it was in training is long past. Having said that and having been clean shaven for my entire 20yrs in the US Navy, I pretty much figured after a 10 day stint at an AF base playing at chembio training that if I were ever in a real world chembio event, anyone having to don gear when the gas/chem alarms went off were most likely gonna die in a hot sweaty plastic suit that would only make it easier for the clean up crews to ID us......But I was always clean shaven and always would be just in case  _____________________________________________ Never use more than three words to say "I don't know" | |||
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W07VH5 |
I'm sure there's a "because Air Force" joke in there somewhere. | |||
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semi-reformed sailor |
if I was king, the uniform regs would apply to everyone. Clean shaven, hair w/i regs, no burkas, no turbans, no extra or I’m special stuff, no flowers on your hair, no neck tattoos, no marrying strippers when on liberty, no fat dollops of shitbags trying to not be fit enough to pick up a rifle and fight for your country. Just like in bootcamp...everyone follows the rules. No exceptions. Don’t like it, sign here, your have been discharged,. “ soldier , escort this civilian to the perimeter.” End of story. "Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein “You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020 “A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker | |||
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| Little ray of sunshine  |
But you're not in the service. My question is why does everyone here take it so personally and get so worked up into a dudgeon? The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything. | |||
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| Member |
Hold the fuck up, Senior Chief- What do you mean “I can’t marry a stripper while on leave”? You don’t understand! This one’s different! She’s not like the rest! She LOVES ME! She’s able to figure out my LES and you guys owe me 1.5 days of leave! She also knows our Unit’s rotation schedule really well! Now if you’ll excuse me, I gotta see the Doc. I’ve got this strange burning sensation... I don’t know why.  ______________________________________________________________________ "When its time to shoot, shoot. Dont talk!" “What the government is good at is collecting taxes, taking away your freedoms and killing people. It’s not good at much else.” —Author Tom Clancy | |||
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| Mark1Mod0Squid |
[hyperbole] You're right, I was for 20yrs but am no mo, don't give a shit no mo either. Fuck em all, let em die screaming as their lungs collapse and their flesh rots off with a beard that de-enhances the seal on their gas mask......[/hyperbole] [Blantons] And I mean it [/Blantons] _____________________________________________ Never use more than three words to say "I don't know" | |||
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| half-genius, half-wit |
Nailed. | |||
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Member |
I don’t care. Dude found a way to skirt around a dumb rule. Well played. As for Chem/Bio.... when it becomes a threat with an actual chance of happening, I’ll worry about it. Till then I’m not lugging an extra 50lbs of shit around theater on every deployment, and I’m tired of going to the refresher classes when I have more relevant stuff to stay current on. People who equate uniform rules to actual combat effectiveness have a narrow view of things. Most nations allows beards in the military and the Taliban seems to be doing just fine against us without any regulations on beard length... | |||
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Ammoholic |
I have no problem making fun of Norse for two reasons, first I learned almost everything I know about them from watching Dragnet. Second the only one I know is weird as fuck, and from what it sounds like every religious function involves drinking beer from a horn (though that part sounds kind of fun). I asked him about the white supremacist, thing. He said yeah there's a good number of them, when they encounter them at Jesse Sic Semper Tyrannis | |||
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| semi-reformed sailor |
"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein “You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020 “A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker | |||
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| Scientific Beer Geek |
If I need to wear a respirator, oxygen mask, etc. I am required to be clean shaven. Beards interfere with a good seal against the skin for the mask, compromising its effectiveness. I am a civilian and work in laboratories. I would think the need for a good oxygen mask seal would be critical for a pilot or member of the military. As others have mentioned, good luck when you are using MOP gear. Just my $0.02, Mike (Molecular Biologist/Immunologist) __________________________ "Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants to see us happy." - Benjamin Franklin | |||
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| Member |
I'm 99% sure the only reason we still play the chem gear dress up game is to feed more money to some wealthy defense contractor who supplies the masks/gear. As for beard guy, he got the idea from an army officer in the Pentagon who did this a year ago. | |||
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| Member |
Interesting you bring this up, as it's been the case in aviation since the dawn of pressurized airplanes that one needed to be clean shaven for O2 masks to seal properly. Recent testing of modern masks has shown that to not be the case, in fact last year Air Canada began allowing its pilots to have neatly trimmed beards. I don't know how aviation O2 masks compare to military chemical gear though, but I would have to assume someone looked into it before allowing beards for any reason. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada...ear-beards-1.4825104 Mongo only pawn in game of life... | |||
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Fighting the good fight |
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| Member |
Nailed it. Nobody gives a shit about nbc these days, and if an attack does happen it’s not like anyone actually has their gas mask readily available anyway, it’s either in the bottom of your ruck sack in the back of the truck or it’s in your room. When fighting hadji I really doubt it’s going to be a problem. | |||
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| Member |
Grooming standards should apply to everyone for the simple reason that attention to detail is still a real thing. That doesn't mean there aren't real exceptions for you high speed types but for the rest of the force, nyet. We can all argue that being a norse heathen or whatever doesn't make you less capable of wielding your particular weapon. True enough. But it also doesn't make you better at wielding your weapon and I don't really think anything that distracts from the mission is a positive thing. If you truly believe something different then lets just quit with the mindfuck games and stop saying this or that is ok if it is your religion or culture. Lets just go straight to the endgame. Present yourself however you feel like. Period. Because that is the endgame. Ponytail? Sure. Man bun? Why not. Lets quit pretending that some religious/cultural thing is the lever you need to wear whatever seems appropriate to you. You want standards because you want your troop (and leaders) to not only meet those standards but to do what they are told, just because. No sea lawyering, no but, but, buts. (Not talking illegal orders btw) You set a standard because you demand a higher standard than the pseudo manchild barrista in the civilian world. This guy is a fuck nut. Norse heathen, my ass, he is a malingerer! lol Actually I don't know anything about his skills or work ethic. I do know he is more trouble than he is worth though. One standard, take it or leave it. OR conversely quit using the arbitrary religious/cultural nonsense and take away all grooming standards. An atheist should be able to choose from the available choices and grow a beard, or wear a hijab, or douche knot or whatever. | |||
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| Member |
Not a real good example. ______________________________________________________________________ "When its time to shoot, shoot. Dont talk!" “What the government is good at is collecting taxes, taking away your freedoms and killing people. It’s not good at much else.” —Author Tom Clancy | |||
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| The Ice Cream Man |
I would think a beard makes for a handy way to control the head, in close-quarters, as well... At least, that's what my friend was told, while he was in the police. | |||
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