quote:

Originally posted by Tubetone:
The question was what I thought about death and I was focusing my answer on me. I am trying to be hopeful based on other things I believe.

I understand. But, when you wrote, "a freeing of people's eternal souls/spirits from the temporal body", I no longer interpret that to mean only you.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

Originally posted by Tubetone:
The question was what I thought about death and I was focusing my answer on me. I am trying to be hopeful based on other things I believe.

I understand. But, when you wrote, "a freeing of people's eternal souls/spirits from the temporal body", I no longer interpret that to mean only you.

I was trying to constrain my answer because I was just answering about what, to me, is death.

I still think it is what happens to everyone. That is what I believe.

I listed that passage of versus because Jesus, arguably a somewhat important figure in Christianity, talked about heaven, eternal life and the non-finality of physical life.

His words are important to MY understanding of death.

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:
I don’t remember now which of those thinkers I had to read back in Humanities in college said it, or even the exact wording, but it was something to the effect of, “Being good is it’s own reward.”

It was probably a branch of Utilitarianism. Maybe Hume to some extent.

Hume was heavily influenced by Hutcheson, who was one of his teachers. His system also incorporates insights made by Shaftesbury, though he certainly lacks Shaftesbury's confidence that virtue is its own reward. Link

Our bodies die and our remains return to the universe in various forms, depending on how you die or are cremated / buried / etc.

Beyond that, no one knows.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
My mate (69 y/o) had a massive heart attack 30 minutes after we pulled into the dock last night in key west. He had no pulse, no breathing, his eyes and mouth were wide open and his skin turned dark/grey in a minutes time. He was dead.

911 was called immediately by the dockmaster who was talking to him. I performed chest compressions for almost 10 minutes until the crew from another yacht brought and hooked up an AED, we shocked him once, no pulse, continued chest compressions and a minute or so later his eyes started moving, he started breathing, and he had a pulse, just as paramedics arrived and took him to the hospital.

I went to the hospital and brought his bag with his personal belongings after notifying family. The pilot and air nurse were there along with 2 nurses and they were about to load him in the helicopter in a few minutes. The nurse asked what happened, because he didn't remember anything. I told the story above to her, after that. Fred who is a real jokester says to me "Why did you have to wake me up? It was so peaceful. My chest hurts like a motherF'er from you beating on it. Then he laughed and said thank you to me several times. He had another cardiac event later last night, they rushed him into surgery and put a stent in his left artery that was completely blocked.....he is sedated and recovering but they say he has a blockage somewhere else. I can only pray for him.

This is someone who has done 120,000+ miles on the ocean with me over the past 11 years and someone that is close to me. I did a cpr refresher a year ago, but it is incredibly different actually doing it on a human and you remember very little of what you're actually doing as there is so much adrenaline flowing. I thought I was doing chest compressions for 30-60 seconds and everyone at the marina said 10 minutes. I just hope he's alright. But I really believe he was in another place and we brought him back.

I am happy and humbled for your success. When I took EMT-Basic (at that time EMT-A for ambulance, later changed) we were told that CPR had about a one in ten success rate. Our instructor was unable to bring both of her parents back and my friend in California was unable to save his father. Of course this was the protocols and training we had in 1982, now with AED's and new protocols this may have changed, I've been out of the EMS world since 1990.

quote:

Originally posted by shovelhead:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
My mate (69 y/o) had a massive heart attack 30 minutes after we pulled into the dock last night in key west. He had no pulse, no breathing, his eyes and mouth were wide open and his skin turned dark/grey in a minutes time. He was dead.

911 was called immediately by the dockmaster who was talking to him. I performed chest compressions for almost 10 minutes until the crew from another yacht brought and hooked up an AED, we shocked him once, no pulse, continued chest compressions and a minute or so later his eyes started moving, he started breathing, and he had a pulse, just as paramedics arrived and took him to the hospital.

I went to the hospital and brought his bag with his personal belongings after notifying family. The pilot and air nurse were there along with 2 nurses and they were about to load him in the helicopter in a few minutes. The nurse asked what happened, because he didn't remember anything. I told the story above to her, after that. Fred who is a real jokester says to me "Why did you have to wake me up? It was so peaceful. My chest hurts like a motherF'er from you beating on it. Then he laughed and said thank you to me several times. He had another cardiac event later last night, they rushed him into surgery and put a stent in his left artery that was completely blocked.....he is sedated and recovering but they say he has a blockage somewhere else. I can only pray for him.

This is someone who has done 120,000+ miles on the ocean with me over the past 11 years and someone that is close to me. I did a cpr refresher a year ago, but it is incredibly different actually doing it on a human and you remember very little of what you're actually doing as there is so much adrenaline flowing. I thought I was doing chest compressions for 30-60 seconds and everyone at the marina said 10 minutes. I just hope he's alright. But I really believe he was in another place and we brought him back.

I am happy and humbled for your success. When I took EMT-Basic (at that time EMT-A for ambulance, later changed) we were told that CPR had about a one in ten success rate. Our instructor was unable to bring both of her parents back and my friend in California was unable to save his father. Of course this was the protocols and training we had in 1982, now with AED's and new protocols this may have changed, I've been out of the EMS world since 1990.

Thank you. He has opened his eyes today and is responding to people and held his sons hand. So things are looking much better for him. I am going to see him tomorrow.

I really do not believe the cpr would have brought him back. After several minutes of CPR he would gulp air with each compression but I stopped cpr after 6 gulps for a few seconds and he stopped gulping air. I then continued What I feel is that it kept blood (and some oxygen) moving in his body until the AED (defibulator) got there. I think without it, he would not have come back no matter how much CPR I did.


I have to do training (CPR/lifesaving and advanced fire fighting for my Captains license 2yrs on cpr and 5 yrs on fire fighting between refreshers). It is incredibly different on a real person, instead of a rubber dummy, and the only time I have used CPR. I had so much adrenaline going, I only remember glimpses of it. But it was just instinct. I saw him there, checked for breath, checked for pulse, felt for his sternum and just started doing, I honestly thought I only did CPR for 30-60 seconds before the AED got there, but everyone else told me around 10 minutes. It took hours for the adrenaline to go away and I felt normal and could see straight.....


Honestly, if he didn't make it, it would be really really tough.

quote:

Originally posted by KMitch200:
My Dad taught me how to shoot, how to fish, how to hunt and how to die.
The following is direct quotes from the last minute or so of his life.

At the end of his cancer fight, he was lying in bed looking up and said in a clearer, stronger voice than he'd had for days,
"I'm gonna do it."
All the family was bedside and Stepmom asked, "Do what?"
"I don't know."
Not sure if he was really with it mentally, she asked "Who am I?"
He answered back with his pet name for her.
He stretched out his arm as if reaching for something, looking up toward the ceiling.
"Who are you?"
"Who are you?"
"Are you a boy or girl?"
"Are you a good boy or good girl?"
They must have been leaving because he asked, "Where are you going?"

We were shocked and stepmom asked, "Are the angels there?"
He said, "Yeah."
Then he quietly said, "I love you. I love you."
The whole family said "We love you too Papa."
Then he said, "Here they come again. I gotta go now. Say goodbye to Papa."
We all said "Goodbye Papa, we love you."
His last words were,
"What are you singing?"

Three short breaths after that he died.
I wasn't really fearful of death before, it happens to all of us and I'd already seen a lot being a Paramedic for 13 yrs by then.
After witnessing that, I'm not fearful of death AT ALL.

This is kind of where I am with the experience. While I do not know, nor am I their Judge, if a Muslim, Buddhist, Mayan, or any other will be in Heaven; I do know it exists.

My thought is once we enter heaven we'll know all who are there to include our ancestors and those who come after us. We'll also know who in our family (maybe others? ) are not there. As also noted by another post, I think minutes on earth is decades in heaven and this is the 8th day, for after God rested He sent His only Son to the earth... John 3:17.

There was a virtual infinity of time before you were born and there will be a virtual infinity of time after you die. So your whole life is just a blip. No one knows exactly what happens after you die, but religions have attempted to explain it in metaphorical terms. The only real question is whether you think human life has any meaning at all. That is the essence of "faith". If it has meaning, then it is all deeply meaningful, and you can be said to be progressing towards heaven (or the other place). If it is all meaningless, then it is also meaningless to speculate about your meaningless blip.
Who really believes life is utterly meaningless?

“We do not ask to be born; and we do not ask to die. But born we are and die we must. We come into existence and we pass out of existence. And in neither case does high-handed fate await our ratification of its decree.”
— Corliss Lamont

I am Christian in belief so I believe death is the beginning of our eternity, whether that be heaven or hell. I have seen two people struggle while taking their last breath on this earth, my mother and my father in law. Neither one was a comforting situation, there was no reaching out, speaking about going toward the light or anything else others have mentioned (I’m not discounting others experiences, just stating mine). I watched both of their bodies struggling to take in oxygen, with my mother it was labored breathing leading to gasping for air at the end. It’s tough to watch someone take their last breath. It doesn’t change my beliefs but death is that one thing in life we all face and we try and convince ourselves in one way or another that it’s a good experience.

If there is one day I would like to have back and do things differently it would be the day my mother died. It was 1977 and she was at the end of a long struggle with lymphoma. I was working in Seattle at the time and she was in a local hospital.

I had gone to visit her during my lunch hour, as usual, but that day was different. She didn't greet me by name but grabbed my hand and asked me to tell them to quiet down. I had no idea what she was talking about as there was no one else in the room and I told her that. She was insistent and said they were all talking to her at once and she couldn't understand them. I pushed back again and told her it was just her and me in the room. I left and figured it was just not a good day for a visit. Sure enough, I got a phone call from the hospital a few hours later and they told me she had passed.

I was young and stupid. There were so many questions I should have asked about her "visitors", so much I could have learned.

Damn, I would love to have that day back.

I have believed in an "after life" for at least 70+ years. I will only describe one incident in my life that proved, to me, that there is an after life.

My father in law died of cancer in a German hospital. His only son was undergoing treatment for cancer at the same time, and of course my mother in law was worried about her son.

My father in law appeared (twice) to my mother in law to reassure her and tell her that their son would be fine. He appeared to her in her bedroom, sat on the edge of her bed to reassure her. (Damn tears getting in the way). He told her that he had learned from the "highest authority" that their son would be fine. That son in now 81 years old.

I think we all remember that "hospital smell".

Well, all the flowers sent by friends and acquaintances of my MIL were placed in the basement as a temporary holding place, because it was cool. That hospital smell was very strong in that basement, even over the smell of all those flowers. He loved flowers and gardening, and I/we are convinced that he was actually there and admired all those beautiful flowers.

We had traveled over to Germany because of a feeling I had that it would be our last chance to see FIL in this life. I spent a lot of hours each day with him in his hospital ward and we had some very interesting conversations, especially the ones over his survival. He knew he was dying and tasked me to take over arrangements.

Is there life after death? Personal experiences and trustworthy stories I have heard in various capacities in my 80 years substantiate that fact.

We are all given freedom of choice whether we believe in that afterlife, or not. Nobody can force another to believe, or not believe. That question will be answered for each of us when we die, and we all will.

Edited to add:

While napping a little while ago, I remembered another example of life after death. Again, my father in law. Shortly after we returned from Germany to bury him and get mother in law settled, our daughter was involved in a head on car accident in which a drunk driver crossed the center line and hit her. She spent 3 1/2 weeks in intensive care during which she "died" twice. She was unable to talk due to injuries, but she wrote notes. She wrote that she had died during the night and was brought back, but only after her Opi appeared and told her that she had to fight and not give up because the shock of losing her would kill her Omi. (Grandmother). She described what it was like "on the other side". And said that she did not want to come back. During her time in ICU, we got to be pretty good friends with her primary care doctor and nurse and they both substantiated the event.

So, do we believe in life after death? Yes! We have lived through it, and know other people who have had the same experiences.

There was a young man in ICU when our daughter was there, he was dying due to injuries from an accident. He could not communicate at all with his family due to the extent of his injuries. He "appeared" to our daughter and asked her to ask us if we would talk to his parents, that he was in such pain and his injuries were so severe that he wanted to die, but they would not let him go.

We reluctantly agreed to somehow do as the young man had asked. His parents understood and after consulting with the doctor they agreed to tell their son that they understood and agreed to let him end his pain, and to go to be with Jesus.

The young passed within a minute or 2 after he received their agreement. Remember, he was clinically unconscious since the time of the accident, but he was communicating to his family his situation.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Elk Hunter,

Burial vs cremation, I have always wondered which I would prefer and still undecided. I do believe because I am a Christian, in heaven and hell. I hope I have lived my life so when the time comes St. Peter would allow me entry into heaven.

quote:

Burial vs cremation, I have always wondered which I would prefer and still undecided.

“I would request that my body in death be buried not cremated, so that the energy content contained within it gets returned to the earth, so that flora and fauna can dine upon it, just as I have dined upon flora and fauna during my lifetime” - Neil deGrasse Tyson

quote:

Originally posted by Elk Hunter:
I have believed in an "after life" for at least 70+ years.
<snip>

Thank you sir for sharing this.

Must admit that the screen became blurry...

quote:

Originally posted by ersatzknarf:

quote:

Originally posted by Elk Hunter:
I have believed in an "after life" for at least 70+ years.
<snip>

Thank you sir for sharing this.

Must admit that the screen became blurry...

Mine, too!