I need to do a fluid change on my LX570. Transmission, differentials, transfer case and power steering.

The manual specifies using Toyota Genuine ATF WS otherwise shift quality and damage may result. They are less specific on the differential, transfer case and power steering fluids.

The shop recognizes this but recommends and uses BG Ultra-Guard Full Synthetic ATF. They say that they've studied test results and also through experience, BG is superior to the Toyota fluid.

Any thoughts / experiences on this? Should I stick w/ Toyota ATF fluid or is the BG ATF fluid recommended?

ETA: I may have misunderstood them - they may have been advocating BG for the diff and transfer case (GL-5 oil). And stick w/ Toyota ATF fluid for the transmission.

ATF:
https://www.bgprod.com/catalog...ersal-synthetic-atf/

Gear GL-5
https://www.bgprod.com/catalog...ricant/#bg-product-6

If I was going away from OEM, I'd stick to products like Mobil 1, etc.

IMHO, the whole BG product line is an overpriced range from as-good-as alternatives to snake oil. I'd be concerned about someone I thought I could trust pushing it on me.

You linked their API GL-5 gear lubricant not their ATF.

I had the BG trans flush done on my RX350. They provide a warranty so I trust their fluids.

I'd rather Redline.

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:
I had the BG trans flush done on my RX350. They provide a warranty so I trust their fluids.

How many miles since the flush? No issues? No adverse symptoms from factory? Sounds like it's transparent to you?

quote:

Originally posted by pbslinger:
I'd rather Redline.

I switched to Redline in my ZX and it seemed to work well. But all these oils are like magic to me. They all sound the same to my ears.

Stay with products recommended by the manufacturer when servicing a Japanese car, IMO.

I don’t think much of BG Products or their warranty, either.

As a formulator of automotive lubricants, I recommend that you stick with OEM products.

There you go.

Seems like there are a lot of good reviews for BG ATF fluids.

But I'll stick w/ Toyota fluid this time around.

Thanks guys.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:
I had the BG trans flush done on my RX350. They provide a warranty so I trust their fluids.

How many miles since the flush? No issues? No adverse symptoms from factory? Sounds like it's transparent to you?

There are lots of debates on this since Lexus claims the transmission fluid is “lifetime”. I have 60000 miles on mine and have only driven about 1000 since the service but I’ve had no issues. It worked fine before the service and still does, no fluid under heat, pressure and contaminated will last forever and I consider cheap insutsince there is no dipstick and no way to check the level. I did the BG flush three times on my 07 Accord, twice on my 03 Civic and now on the Lexus. When my 2018 Forester gets to 35000 I’ll do the flush in that. I’ve used the BG services for the last 10 years and have never had a problem.

quote:

Originally posted by arfmel:
Stay with products recommended by the manufacturer when servicing a Japanese car, IMO.

I don’t think much of BG Products or their warranty, either.

You may not but there are several large shops in the Houston area that do as well as the transmission shop I use. My transmission shop sees more vehicles in a week than I’ll have in my life so I’ll just have to trust their recommendation. Have you had bad performance from the BG products?

There are limits on how much they will pay with their "warranty" and I would bet that you will have some "participation" ( a polite way of saying open your wallet) in case of a failure.

I've seen Toyota transmissions that have had the wrong fluid used, IIRC the 2009 Vibe used WS fluid and if I'm correct the 2008 used T-IV. And yes it did create problems.

I'm not too wild on the idea of "universal" fluids. And if truly if it "fits all" why would the manufacturer have multiple parts/part numbers? Believe me, they would not, if they found that fluid "A" with a lower price and fluid "B" with a higher price would interchange, I can just about guarantee you that that manufacturer would replace "A" with "B" and charge the higher price!

BG services are slanted to be a profit maker for the shop, the person that sells it and the installer. The last two usually get "spiffed", the shop just makes the profits.

On the flushes, ask the shop to show you where in the owner's manual it says to perform those. At least one domestic car manufacturer sent the dealers a TSB citing the increased cost of ownership, possible damage to the vehicle, etc. and if they were required that it would be stated as such in the maintenance schedule.

I don't use them in my personal and I worked in dealerships 47 years, of course your results may vary.......

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:

quote:

Originally posted by arfmel:
Stay with products recommended by the manufacturer when servicing a Japanese car, IMO.

I don’t think much of BG Products or their warranty, either.

You may not but there are several large shops in the Houston area that do as well as the transmission shop I use. My transmission shop sees more vehicles in a week than I’ll have in my life so I’ll just have to trust their recommendation. Have you had bad performance from the BG products?

Ask a shop that doesn’t sell the stuff.

I’ve worked in the new and used dealer service industry. High volume retail along with production vehicles in service to be re-sale. Never have I seen an issue using OE fluids on foreign vehicles. As others I would stick to Toyota fluids. Same with Honda, which I’ve owned and still do, OE fluids only. There’s something about foreign vehicles that you should really use OE fluids. On domestics as long as it’s name brand and meets specs it’ll work. Hell I’ve even had techs that only used Walmart fluids for 100,000’s of miles in domestic and never an issue.

I’ve also used personally and sold many a flush of BG Products. Never saw any issues related to the products. I wouldn’t do a flush in foreign but domestics ok. As long as the vehicle has been serviced regularly. That’s the key to a flush. If the vehicle is high mileage and never or little service then don’t flush anything. Just change fluid.

quote:

Originally posted by shovelhead:


On the flushes, ask the shop to show you where in the owner's manual it says to perform those. At least one domestic car manufacturer sent the dealers a TSB citing the increased cost of ownership, possible damage to the vehicle, etc. and if they were required that it would be stated as such in the maintenance schedule.

I don't use them in my personal and I worked in dealerships 47 years, of course your results may vary.......

There are limits on warranty coverage just like any other warranty. The owners manual is not the final authority on what maintenance should be performed and anyone that believes they are is naive. Mine states that the transmission fluid is lifetime and that’s garbage. The flush is designed to remove as much of the old fluid as possible, it’s logical that you want as much out as possible. There’s no magical claims about flushing, it’s just a pm. The BG services like everything else that repair shops sell are there to make money. I do what I think will extend the life of my vehicles, I don’t need to change the oil every 3000 miles but I do and it can’t hurt and most likely will help in the long run. Everyone has their opinions but without facts they are all the same. Nobody in their right mind can deny that shorter maintenance intervals can harm the transmission so I’ll continue to flush. I’ll spend $200 every few years to avoid a several thousand dollar repair. I do agree the fluid should meet or exceed manufacturerers requirements.

Fluids and lubricants have a very specific rating for the application. That can be found in the manual or from the manufacturer. Meets or exceeds that rating is what's important. As a car ages there can be newer specs that exceed.

I can’t say what a retail dealer of their products does to sell a particular product. Automotive fluids and lubricants seem to have a lot of snake oil floating around for some reason.

For what it’s worth, in the late 90’s I had a minor (to them) business relationship with BG Products. I was able to visit their headquarters and manufacturing plant in Wichita, meet and get to know many of the people that ran the business, and see what they made and how it was developed and formulated. I’m not a chemist but have learned a bit about chemistry in automotive product.
The people there were honest, ethical and endeavored to develop and supply the best products possible. I have used their products for almost 30 years. Not all of them, but engine oils, gear lubes, ATF, some fuel system products and a few miscellaneous others.
Their stuff is at least as good as any of the best out there and often better. How a particular retailer sells and operates isn’t something I can say. That goes for any of the other brands too. Many are often oversold by the dealers.

There are however a number of manufacturers that are in the snake oil business. BG has a well equiped and staffed laboratory that can analyze and reverse engineer products. I heard of a very well known competitor touting the virtues of an oil additive. It happens to also be FAA approved (that doesn’t mean all you may think but that’s another subject). I sent BG a factory sealed container of this miracle product for their lab to analyze. The stuff was pure base stock. What does that mean? Oils are blended product that start off with base stock that is made by only a few manufacturers. Then various additives are put in like friction modifiers, viscosity index modifiers, anti wear additives, etc. until they can meet the various ratings you see on your cars oil cap or in the book. This miracle product that all sorts of people swear by is nothing but base oil stock and a ton of marketing.

So back to the start. Almost any of the quality brands that meet the specifications for your car will be fine. Change them according to recommendation and you’ll be fine. Some are a little better but you’ll likely never know the difference as long as you follow what the true experts recommend. Not somebody’s cousin or brother in law.

Just in case you wondered, I have never been a dealer for BG (or any other oil for that matter) or made money pushing their products.

If it were me I'd avoid that without some more research. But the net of what this actually means is the fluid involved actually tested to meet the spec required. My dealer often advocates for BG, but I know that is simply a money based argument. If your manual says Toyota ATF and there is no specific generic alternative spec, then that is what I would put in it. If your manual says, for example, Toyota 75W-90 Gear oil and any oil that meets API GL-5. Then you will be fine with any oil that meets that spec.

quote:

There are lots of debates on this since Lexus claims the transmission fluid is “lifetime”. I have 60000 miles on mine and have only driven about 1000 since the service but I’ve had no issues. It worked fine before the service and still does, no fluid under heat, pressure and contaminated will last forever and I consider cheap insurance there is no dipstick and no way to check the level. I did the BG flush three times on my 07 Accord, twice on my 03 Civic and now on the Lexus.

I have wondered about this...
I have always changed the trans fluid on the Acuras, but the 4Runner has no no dipstick and no way to check the level.
I guess I should take it to a shop.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

There are lots of debates on this since Lexus claims the transmission fluid is “lifetime”. I have 60000 miles on mine and have only driven about 1000 since the service but I’ve had no issues. It worked fine before the service and still does, no fluid under heat, pressure and contaminated will last forever and I consider cheap insurance there is no dipstick and no way to check the level...

I have wondered about this...
I have always changed the trans fluid on the Acuras, but the 4Runner has no no dipstick and no way to check the level.
I guess I should take it to a shop.

The Toyota/Lexus automatics with no disptick have a procedure where you fill it, get it (the fluid) to a specific temperature, then open a 2nd "drain"...where there is a tube inside the pan at a specific level.

Any little bit of extra fluid drains off, leaving you with the exact amount they specify, for the specific fluid temp.

I don't buy the "lifetime fluid" claim. Change it at +100k, IMO. Toyota WS or Valvoline MaxLife are considered the 2 good options to use.

On my GX470, I did a drain and fill of the pan at around 130k and 135k. So 9qts total replaced with new fluid.

YMMV.

- Brian