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Originally posted by EZ_B:
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Noon today in San Francisco.

Surreal.

Yep. Similar view down on the peninsula. This pic was taken at 10am; looks more like 10pm! Have never seen anything quite like it.


Fire Blackout - 1 by kpkina, on Flickr

(I am resisting the urge to tell people that a dark, orange sky is a portent of the upcoming presidential election. )

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Originally posted by corsair:

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Originally posted by sns3guppy:
The take-away is that nuclear power is good, because at least it's not as dirty as a forest fire? Is this a contest for the best straw man argument?

The issue, and Scoutmaster pointed it out, is many of the policies that are pushed in CA is constantly revolving around an environmental preservation/protection angle. The enviros love to fixate on human factors causing climate change, however they have no issue ignoring natural factors such as forest fires, volcanic eruptions and natural methane release. Environmental alarmism has taken over good governance and policy making within the state. Nobody is denigrating firefighters or, blaming them for what goes up in the air or, goes into the ground. Thank you for your insight on this topic, perhaps one less cup of coffee a day?

And as a farmer, I can you that many of these well intended morons don’t have the first clue what is good for the environment. They mostly oppose anyone doing anything when in fact that can be extremely detrimental.

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I had my closest mid-air near-collision there, and one that was close with a helicopter; the helicopter during a drop on a ridge, and the other was Skywest Airlines, inside the temporary flight restriction, as I came off the drop; I was in a C-130 both times.

Did you ever hear how the Skywest NMAC happened? Shouldn’t they have been IFR? And if so, shouldn’t the controller have issued a clearance that kept them out of the TFR?

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(I am resisting the urge to tell people that a dark, orange sky is a portent of the upcoming presidential election. Wink

Oh, go on - can you imagine what kind of panic you'd spread among the new agers? The sage smoke would make the wildfires look like nothing!

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Originally posted by slosig:

Did you ever hear how the Skywest NMAC happened? Shouldn’t they have been IFR? And if so, shouldn’t the controller have issued a clearance that kept them out of the TFR?

They were IFR. ATC can send aircraft through a TFR, and they did. We had just completed a drop on a ridge and were climbing in smoke, still doing the post-drop and climb checks. I glanced up saw the aircraft pass from slightly above us in the upper right windscreen to below us in the left chin windows. If you think about the timing and angle, that's FAST, and it's CLOSE. The captain of the Skywest flight was wearing Rayban Outdoorsman II sunglasss with the curved earpieces and the opaque plastic nose bridge plate. We were that close.

We checked out with the air attack and contacted the controller for our return to Fresno, and headed for the incident exit point. We advised ATC about the incident, but never heard anything. We were on a load-and-return back to the incident, which occupied our full attention.

Inside a TFR, while ATC can route IFR traffic through (and sometimes does), participating traffic falls under the Air Attack's purview, which performs a type of ATC function in the airspace. Aircraft call the air attack at 12 miles, and if permission is not received by 7 miles, are to hold outside. Non-participating aircraft shouldn't enter the TFR without authorization, which will come from the air attack. The exception is IFR traffic, which ATC shouldn't route through, but depending on the location, does. Normally the air attack is participating with ATC, and any through-flight would be coordinated with the air attack; it may have been in this case, but we were never aware. I suspect that because we were at ridge-top height, we weren't on ATC's radar, and our climb off the drop wasn't anticipated. There was no TCAS over the fires at that time, so neither the air attack nor we would have "seen" the other aircraft; everything was done by situational awareness and radio calls. The air attack may be talking on 3 or more radios simultaneously, sometimes working up to five frequencies and busy doesn't begin to describe it. So busy that the air attack and pilot may have divided the workload; when I did it full time, on busy incidents, the cockpit was sometimes awash with sticky notes advising inbound and outbound traffic, and a hundred other details, to keep the guy next to me informed. Busy.

ATC shouldn't have sent the aircraft through.

Yes, California National Guard did several extractions. Noonan's comments are pure bullshit.

Excellent job by the National Guard.

Noonan needs to check his shit. The national guard pilot interviewed about the rescue recounted that it was the most demanding flying in his career, including multiple combat tours.

I don't disagree. Noonan needs to understand that Calfire and everyone else flying into the fire does this every day, multiple times, sometimes near year-round.

Those pink markings on the side of the helicopter are fire markings placed for visibility, because those aircraft are assigned to the fire. This was not a case of the firefighters refusing to do their job, and the national guard stepping in to save the day. Pure, fucking bullshit. It's a case of team members, and tools in the toolbox, doing their job, and doing it well. Kudos to the California National Guard.

How long will California put up with the same mess every Fall? Stupid question I guess as they vote in fools who do the same thing time and again and nothing changes.

Sounds like Cal Fire needs some n new blood at the top of the totem pole anyway.

How did 300 campers get allowed IN anyway iif being stranded was imminent?

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Originally posted by FN in MT:
How long will California put up with the same mess every Fall? Stupid question I guess as they vote in fools who do the same thing time and again and nothing changes. . .

I got an email from the teachers union today lamenting the CA wildfire disaster this year, and urging even stronger support for liberal politicians to solve the climate crisis. (ie keep doing what you have been doing, but much more)

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Originally posted by sns3guppy:
Yes, California National Guard did several extractions. Noonan's comments are pure bullshit.

Absolutely! This narrative that CalFire refused to go in and CA NG came in to save the day is utter horse shit. Media is attempting to shape-it and milk-it into a story. All contributed to this extraction.

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Originally posted by FN in MT:
Sounds like Cal Fire needs some n new blood at the top of the totem pole anyway.

How did 300 campers get allowed IN anyway iif being stranded was imminent?

CalFire is the firefighting arm of the CA Dept of Forestry, why would there need to be a change? They don't manage forests and open spaces, just fight the fires. Keep in mind, there's also the US Dept of Forestry that also manages Federal properties which are big and plentiful in the state.

Most of those campers were apart of an off-roading club that were on an annual Labor Day ride and campout. Mammoth Pool Reservoir (like all of the other lakes) is set in steep terrain; its one-way in, and one-way out. Being a three-day weekend, with a heat wave, every one of those lakes (Huntington, Shaver, Bass, Edison, etc..) was a mass of humanity before the fire roared through. The road into Mammoth Pool was cut-off as winds pushed the fire line over and burned it up. In reality, the parking lot and area around the docks was free of vegetation, all gravel/exposed dirt so, they could've just stayed put and wait-it out. CalFire was on the ground directing and organizing the rescue.

They won't learn, or change. They protect the moutain lions that attack them on their running trails, even the ones that prowl along their backyard fence lines. I'm sure topography and weather are factors, but the developers and city planners who design those neighborhoods aren't bothered with such things.

Seems a week or two ago CA Gov Newsom softly admitted that CA's forest policies contributed to the conditions which were very susceptible to wildfires. I guess Trump commented along the lines that CA forest mismanagement contributed to the fires.

Newsom objected, climate change is to blame for the fires, the only "mismanagement" is that CA hasn't done enough to respond to climate change (ie, CA needs to eliminate fossil fuels, reduce carbon footprint, go all solar and wind power).

CA will be the author of it's own demise. And in the middle of the rubble, they will deny it.

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Originally posted by Scoutmaster:
Seems a week or two ago CA Gov Newsom softly admitted that CA's forest policies contributed to the conditions which were very susceptible to wildfires. I guess Trump commented along the lines that CA forest mismanagement contributed to the fires.

Newsom objected, climate change is to blame for the fires, the only "mismanagement" is that CA hasn't done enough to respond to climate change (ie, CA needs to eliminate fossil fuels, reduce carbon footprint, go all solar and wind power).

CA will be the author of it's own demise. And in the middle of the rubble, they will deny it.

Newsome has been tempering his commentary about POTUS the last few months, as he's desperate for Federal assistance. Trump is due to tour the fire affected areas and get briefed by Hair Gel up at McClelland today. While he'd love to publicly skewer Trump, he knows the state is watching and seeing how much he presses the 'its all about climate change' narrative.

Was in SF over the weekend, amazing how many 'know-nothings' continue to bleet-on about 'climate change is the reason', never once considering irresponsible forest management, lack of modernization of electrical infrastructure, lack of diversification in energy sources and irresponsible community development are major factors in all of this...not to mention the rash of arsonists getting caught up in PacNW.

The President Awarded DFCs to the crews today. A nice photo op for the families and great recognition for a job well done.

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Originally posted by corsair:. . . Was in SF over the weekend, amazing how many 'know-nothings' continue to bleet-on about 'climate change is the reason', never once considering irresponsible forest management, lack of modernization of electrical infrastructure, lack of diversification in energy sources and irresponsible community development are major factors in all of this...not to mention the rash of arsonists getting caught up in PacNW.

Will CA liberals ever fess up that their actions were the main cause of the problem?? Or, how much worse does it need to get before they admit to reality?

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Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:. . . Was in SF over the weekend, amazing how many 'know-nothings' continue to bleet-on about 'climate change is the reason', never once considering irresponsible forest management, lack of modernization of electrical infrastructure, lack of diversification in energy sources and irresponsible community development are major factors in all of this...not to mention the rash of arsonists getting caught up in PacNW.

Will CA liberals ever fess up that their actions were the main cause of the problem?? Or, how much worse does it need to get before they admit to reality?

Oakland could use another burn to drive the point home. Maybe a firestorm around Woodside, Los Altos or, Portola Valley.

Maybe CA should understand that drought is the way of the West. And have lasted for 200+ years in the past...

Imagine how the fires will be when it gets that dry.




Top, the percent of the area of the American West experiencing moderate to severe drought at any one time as reconstructed from tree ring records over the last millennium. The time series has been filtered to emphasize variations on timescales of many decades to centuries. The lower panel shows a blowup for the last century emphasizing that the recent drought was not historically exceptional. The figure is taken from Cook et al. (2004, Science). During Medieval times serious drought affected large areas of the West. Following that there was a long period of more moderate drought (corresponding to the Little Ice Age) and, since then there appears to have been a return to a more drought stricken climate.


http://ocp.ldeo.columbia.edu/r...ought/medieval.shtml