Anyone doing an IRA to IRA transfer? Also, Edward Jones sucks....

April 17, 2018, 01:23 PM

slabsides45

So I found out very very recently (today) that Edward Jones' chicanery with the DOL grandfathered IRA law has me trapped. My business has Edward Jones listed as the account we have the retirement through, but EJ has seen fit to lock the grandfathered accounts and disallow any future investments. So from what I understand, the law says the account may continue on as it was, but EJ says they are shutting down future deposits into that account and forcing me to go to a fee based product. This sucks, since I paid (IIRC) around 5.75% on the front end for that account to begin with.

Anyhow, I've been reading that the law allows for people who have a company matched retirement program to (with the boss' approval) transfer the funds out to a different IRA, so that they may have the company funds and their own contributions go to a different account. Anyone doing this? If so, is it automatic monthly, or is it a manual "pick up the phone and call them" monthly deal?

Any input would be great, I have no idea what I'm doing if it doesn't bleed.

April 17, 2018, 02:50 PM

ZSMICHAEL

I did an IRA transfer some years back. I found that I had limited success trying to do it myself. Once the new Brokerage firm became involved there was no problem. There is of course requisite paperwork and you have to be certain not to run afoul of any tax issues. Good luck.

April 17, 2018, 03:22 PM

slabsides45

Thanks for the input ZSMICHAEL. What I'm wondering about is an ongoing, month to month transfer of contributions, wherein the participant can accept the company contribution, then "forward" it from the company choice of IRA to the individual choice's IRA. My very limited reading of this was that it can be done depending on the company's attitude (my company, so I am relatively sure I'll be willing to do it!) and getting the place you're transferring from on board. Since it's the law I THINK they have to do it, but I have read that the law says they don't have to do an automatic transfer (i.e., you'd have to call every month).

Anyone got one of those hen's teeth IRA setups?

April 17, 2018, 03:29 PM

220-9er

Get an account at a better place like Vanguard or Fidelity. I bet they can help you move the money properly and they charge much lower fees.

April 17, 2018, 05:06 PM

Wasabibill

The link goes to an article about a Class Action Lawsuit, brought by investors with Edward Jones who were shoehorned into advisory accounts.

https://onwallstreet.financial...ching-fiduciary-rule

For years and years Jones was critical of advisors who were "fee for service". Now, they encourage it for their clients.

April 17, 2018, 05:56 PM

shovelhead

I would run it by a third party. Any opinion from Edward Jones would be biased toward them.

April 17, 2018, 09:05 PM

Rey HRH

Would you still pay the front load on anything going to EJ?

I take it that it's not possible for you to set up a relationship with another company and shift your ongoing contributions to them?

Also, if you're pass a certain age (I was reading about this recently from a company willing to accept the funds), you have the right as an employee to pull the funds out of a company 401k and deposit it into a personal IRA. The front end you paid on the funds is water under the bridge, what matters now is your outlook whether the returns on your current fund will compare favorably with alternative portfolio mixes. Of course, you didn't mention if you'd also have to pay back end fees.

Setting up a monthly transfer, if possible, just means you'd have to stay on top of them that the funds do get transferred. If that was my only option, I would settle for a yearly transfer or semi-yearly transfer.

"It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946.

April 17, 2018, 09:10 PM

mjlennon

quote:
Originally posted by 220-9er:
Get an account at a better place like Vanguard or Fidelity. I bet they can help you move the money properly and they charge much lower fees.

^^^^^^ This.

April 17, 2018, 11:32 PM

armedprof

My first concern is that you readily admit that you don't know what you are doing....

I am confused by some of the facts in the original post.

Is the plan IRA? or a SEP IRA? or a 401k? The differences are huge and will have a significant impact on your ability as the employee to move your money.
Are you self employed?
Are there other employees that are in this retirement plan?
Are the contributions all employer contributions or a combination of employer and employee? If a combination, your plan is not an IRA.
Is Edward Jones providing Fiduciary duties to the retirement plan? If so DOL applies. If not, not.
Are you over 59.5?
Fee based accounts are generally cost competitive, what about the new account do you not like?
Are you aware that the A Share mutual funds are very expensive? AND generally do not perform better than a no load fund from a multitude of mutual fund companies?

I have been in the business for about 15 years now and I hold all the licenses you could possibly want and even a few extra... If you want to shoot me an email, I would be happy to discuss the details with you and help get you on the right track. I will not attempt to sell you anything. I no longer work with clients directly.

April 19, 2018, 01:26 PM

slabsides45

quote:
Originally posted by armedprof:
My first concern is that you readily admit that you don't know what you are doing....

I am confused by some of the facts in the original post.

Is the plan IRA? or a SEP IRA? or a 401k? The differences are huge and will have a significant impact on your ability as the employee to move your money.
Are you self employed?
Are there other employees that are in this retirement plan?
Are the contributions all employer contributions or a combination of employer and employee? If a combination, your plan is not an IRA.
Is Edward Jones providing Fiduciary duties to the retirement plan? If so DOL applies. If not, not.
Are you over 59.5?
Fee based accounts are generally cost competitive, what about the new account do you not like?
Are you aware that the A Share mutual funds are very expensive? AND generally do not perform better than a no load fund from a multitude of mutual fund companies?

I have been in the business for about 15 years now and I hold all the licenses you could possibly want and even a few extra... If you want to shoot me an email, I would be happy to discuss the details with you and help get you on the right track. I will not attempt to sell you anything. I no longer work with clients directly.

Thanks for the replies all! I am a small business owner who set up a retirement account at work for a simple IRA. This was done through Edward Jones, and the plan we used worked well for years, was grandfathered in with new legislation, and would have been fine for me-but EJ shut it down to try to force me to move to a fee based account. My wife and I are both participants in the program, so both affected. The new EJ deal has (IIRC) a 1.35% management fee, and based on their own estimates it would cost someone $2,700 per year to have them manage an account with 200K in it. Comparing that to some Vanguard accounts that cost $600 for the same amount, I'm balking at their proposition. If necessary I can keep my old funds there inactive for another year and then move them, but I hate to be forced to pay them this year's contributions (totaling around 18Kish) if I'm going to pay them a fee and then pay another fee later to move it. For now, we found an account that is essentially holding the $$ with them until we invest it, but the EJ broker sees what we are thinking and is not being super helpful or pleasant. I might just take you up on your offer and email you for more input, thank you!

April 19, 2018, 02:02 PM

At the end of the day, you should be able to move the account to a new firm via a trustee to trustee transfer. You just need to make sure you know the type of account you currently have. (This was addressed in armedprof's posting.) Once you're sure of the type of account, you can set up the same type of account at the new firm then roll the money. Bot have it done as a trustee to trustee transfer.

Note, the new trustee may or may not be able to hold the current investments. You'll want to discuss this in advance with the new trustee then decide if you want to have the current trustee sell the investments so you can transfer cash. This can result in commissions that eat away at the balance in the account.