The real problem is junior enlisted personnel who are married and receive BAS in their pay.

They may go buy groceries for their family and spend the money and then get called out on deployment. Then are required to pay for their meals while they are in the field or deployed and they are short on cash to do that. A lot of times the deployments are not advertised ahead of time.

Junior enlisted living out of the barracks are always struggling.

Lima beans and a half slice of toast is not a meal I would enjoy enough to give a dining establishment a second chance.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:


That's the basic gist of it.

Yeah, no.

The Marines have the same issues. At the enlisted chow halls on LeJeune (and the same way on Pendleton), if you don’t get there as soon as they open, they run out of food quick. They have nothing to drink but water after the first 15-20 minutes. Eventually, people stop going because they know there is no sense because they are too late and there will be no food. In this cycle, because they had fewer people show, they have less food the next day.

The food is poor quality, with very few fresh fruits and vegetables. Dominos is making a killing both places because they have to the barracks delivery.

I was floored about this and couldn’t comprehend it. There is also generally no heat in the barracks and no hot water. Lots of reports of mold from water leaks.

And the Marines were the only branch to “pass” a DoD audit.

When was this? Recently/currently?
I know you are talking Marines, but I have never heard of an Army chow hall running out of food. At least not daily and that quickly. Special meals with an abnormal demand, maybe. I don't hear any one talking about it either. Aviation types are on separate rats a lot of times, though. Hmm.

quote:

Originally posted by armme:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:


That's the basic gist of it.

Yeah, no.

The Marines have the same issues. At the enlisted chow halls on LeJeune (and the same way on Pendleton), if you don’t get there as soon as they open, they run out of food quick. They have nothing to drink but water after the first 15-20 minutes. Eventually, people stop going because they know there is no sense because they are too late and there will be no food. In this cycle, because they had fewer people show, they have less food the next day.

The food is poor quality, with very few fresh fruits and vegetables. Dominos is making a killing both places because they have to the barracks delivery.

I was floored about this and couldn’t comprehend it. There is also generally no heat in the barracks and no hot water. Lots of reports of mold from water leaks.

And the Marines were the only branch to “pass” a DoD audit.

When was this? Recently/currently?
I know you are talking Marines, but I have never heard of an Army chow hall running out of food. At least not daily and that quickly. Special meals with an abnormal demand, maybe. I don't hear any one talking about it either. Aviation types are on separate rats a lot of times, though. Hmm.

I respect Jljones and I wouldn’t try to discredit him in any way, but i don’t by this totally either. IF this is accurate then it’s a mismanagement at a low levels at the base. However, it “sounds” like extenuating circumstances.

Also, the photo of the Lima beans and bread is opportunistic BS, I routinely see, steak, veggies, fruit, ice cream, hot bar, salad bar, etc at the bases I visit. Hell, at dfac 9 here in Augusta they serve crab legs!

I’m not saying what some have said isn’t true on some level, but it’s seems we’re dealing with a 90%/10% (a few bad apples) situation where folks are playing into the drama of the article. And that’s a best case scenario.

A quick Google search shows that Marines have had to resort to sue over the living conditions. I tend to believe the rest of it.

quote:

Originally posted by wcb6092:
The real problem is junior enlisted personnel who are married and receive BAS in their pay.

They may go buy groceries for their family and spend the money and then get called out on deployment. Then are required to pay for their meals while they are in the field or deployed and they are short on cash to do that. A lot of times the deployments are not advertised ahead of time.

Junior enlisted living out of the barracks are always struggling.

I tried submitting to the "USAF Suggestion Program" several times and other avenues suggestion that when orders were cut for deployments, that the time the troop was on those orders, they could eat and the chow hall or receive per diem for rats (in advance), and then settle up with travel voucher after.

Since orders are used for any number of things, and Travel Vouchers are mandatory filing in return.

This would permit the troop to be able to eat, and not burden his family, with plenty of time after returning and submitting the Travel Voucher, before the next pay period if the troop was overpaid for the deployment and was going to have that deducted in that next pay period.

And always a "Thank You for your submission." and crickets.

I retired 32 years ago, and we still have this problem that can be so easily addressed.

All the means to do it are already in place, and it is simply another "check box" would add a few seconds of time to process by accounting and finance, who already have all the information on hand to do it.

Allow me to fix that misquote for you:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
BAS is not a deduction from a soldier's paycheck. It's an addition to a soldier's paycheck. It's a benefit.

From that benifit, the government deducts meals it provides while a soldier is living on base whether the soldier eats the meals or not. Who's fault is it if a soldier doesn't go to the dining hall?

That's the basic gist of it. If the soldier is on leave, no deductions are made while on leave. If a soldier lives off base, again no deductions are made.

It's very similar to the BAH, Basic Allowance for Housing.

Yeah, no.

The Marines have the same issues. At the enlisted chow halls on LeJeune (and the same way on Pendleton), if you don’t get there as soon as they open, they run out of food quick. They have nothing to drink but water after the first 15-20 minutes. Eventually, people stop going because they know there is no sense because they are too late and there will be no food. In this cycle, because they had fewer people show, they have less food the next day.

The food is poor quality, with very few fresh fruits and vegetables. Dominos is making a killing both places because they have to the barracks delivery.

I was floored about this and couldn’t comprehend it. There is also generally no heat in the barracks and no hot water. Lots of reports of mold from water leaks.

And the Marines were the only branch to “pass” a DoD audit.

My civilian take on this is a bit different. (if I understand the situation correctly.)


$151MM of tax money was assigned a purpose.

It was not used for that purpose/may not be needed/may be something else, but it was not spent on its intended purpose.

It was then, “sent elsewhere,” for an unknown purpose.

People go to jail for this, in the real world.

I would think officers would be raising hell if there was really inadequate food for the men, in normal situations.

quote:

Originally posted by Aglifter:

I would think officers would be raising hell if there was really inadequate food for the men, in normal situations.

When I was US Navy (shore based), the daily Duty Officer for our squadron took his meals in the enlisted chow hall.

I have fond memories of the day that my Division Officer had the duty. He walked up to our table with his tray, said "Hi guys, mind if I join you?" He sat down and watched as my friend took a pork chop from his tray and drained a bunch of grease into an empty water glass. Division Officer did not say a word at the table; he stood up, took the glass of grease, and headed for the kitchen.

Within minutes, the line servers were pulling the pork chops, and they were quickly replaced by steak. Not great steak -- after all, it was the enlisted chow hall, but still better than the grease-soaked pork chops.

My experience is primordial but I have a couple of questions. Back in the day, mid-20th century, company grade officers were in the mess halls, daily, ate the chow, and filled out a simple form with room for notes. To my certain knowledge, the form was read by higher-ups, in my BN it was the xo, who might have a question or two periodically. Sufficient in quality was one of the stock answers but required added notes.

Now let us advance to the enlightened present: Where are the company grade officers, first lieutenant and captains? (Forgive me about the 2nd lt.s being omitted, they would still be trying to find their asses with both hands and a flashlight, but they can report.) So where is the Marine pride in taking care of their men. If it is no longer a required duty to eat in the mess, then it is a sacred duty to enquire as to the mess.
Again, primordial, but I once heard a general officer enquire of a lance corporal; "How's the chow?"

Are platoon leaders talking to their men even if they don't go into the chow hall? If they are and they get an unacceptable answer are they not talking to the co. XO? Is the XO not talking to the co. Co? Is the CO not ranting at the Bn personnel boss? Is he/she/xer not talking to the BN CO?

What the actual fuck? If this is happening, why isn't it getting fixed? If it isn't happening why isn't the reporting being cleared up?


Just a following comment on the way things were...In sunny S.E. Asia we dined on C's routinely.The way it worked was the platoon guide opened a case of C's turned the box over and uncovered the 24 (I think) shiny unmarked can bottoms. The junior man picked first, officers, picked last and if for whatever reason there wasn't one left he ate jerky which if he was smart he had in his pocket.
And since I'm on the topic, if a Marine got apricots, which everyone knows, drew incoming, he was required to throw it over the wire or into the bush depending on circumstance, but he got to pick again. The hope was that that Mr. Charles would find the can, eat it and go to his reward. Fair's fair right?


Anyway, as I said, What the actual fuck?

quote:

Originally posted by Aglifter:
My civilian take on this is a bit different. (if I understand the situation correctly.)


$151MM of tax money was assigned a purpose.

It was not used for that purpose/may not be needed/may be something else, but it was not spent on its intended purpose.

It was then, “sent elsewhere,” for an unknown purpose.

People go to jail for this, in the real world.

I would think officers would be raising hell if there was really inadequate food for the men, in normal situations.

As others have pointed out, the article is a hit piece purposely written so the reader comes to the conclusion you came to. I came to the same conclusion, but my BS meter was pinging so I took 10 minutes to read up on how the BAS benefit works.

It's not a tax on the soldier, it's a benefit some soldiers are eligible for. There's requirements to meet to be eligible for the benefit and rules about using it. The way I'm understanding it is that a soldier that lives on base full-time doesn't qualify for BAS because the government provides all the meals.

If a soldier lives off base, he may get the BAS benefit to help make up for the free meals he's missing by not living on base.

If the soldier receiving BAS is required to live on base for whatever reason during a pay period, an amount is deducted from the BAS for each day the soldier is on base for the free meals the government is providing while the soldier is living on base that day.

It's up to the soldier to take advantage of those free meals.

A friend of mine was Navy lowest rank ever during Viet Nam. So low grunt level loading food onto ship. He noticed the food grade going to officers mess was much higher that food going to enlisted mess.

quote:

Originally posted by Hamden106:
A friend of mine was Navy lowest rank ever during Viet Nam. So low grunt level loading food onto ship. He noticed the food grade going to officers mess was much higher that food going to enlisted mess.

This is common knowledge.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Aglifter:
My civilian take on this is a bit different. (if I understand the situation correctly.)

If the soldier receiving BAS is required to live on base for whatever reason during a pay period, an amount is deducted from the BAS for each day the soldier is on base for the free meals the government is providing while the soldier is living on base that day.

When I was in the soldier receiving BAS had to pay cash to eat in the mess hall or get C-RATS in the field.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:

quote:

Originally posted by Hamden106:
A friend of mine was Navy lowest rank ever during Viet Nam. So low grunt level loading food onto ship. He noticed the food grade going to officers mess was much higher that food going to enlisted mess.

This is common knowledge.

Out in the weeds everybody dined on the same cuisine.

quote:

Originally posted by wishfull thinker:

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:

quote:

Originally posted by Hamden106:
A friend of mine was Navy lowest rank ever during Viet Nam. So low grunt level loading food onto ship. He noticed the food grade going to officers mess was much higher that food going to enlisted mess.

This is common knowledge.

Out in the weeds everybody dined on the same cuisine.

Aint many woods on a ship.

Speaking as someone who ate a lot of not good Army food and spent waaaaaay too much time standing in a chow line:

- All-in, I "paid" a good amount of $ for chow, but I'm not mad about it...

- Aside from Camp Shelby and a few overseas DFACs the food was often not good and mediocre at best, but I never expected good food from the Army (Nor did I expect to get rich).

- I think it is all semantics and accounting/budget bureaucracy: for example, I would go to a 29 day school. The Army would give me say $500 for meals, but the school had a DFAC I could have eaten at. The rates were set at some weird but exact amount like $5.86 for lunch or $8.33 for dinner. At the end of the course I had to pay the DFAC the grand total for all meals provided regardless of wether I ate them or not... That amount was pretty much the same as what my food allowance was.

- Officers did not get the food allowance and had to pay for their meals (And uniforms), but they made ~2x what the enlisted did, so kind of hard to feel sorry for them

- There is a good amount of nickel and dime BS that comes with the Army. "Sucks to Suck" The sooner you accept it, the better off you are.

Now CIF, that is a different story. Total rip-off. I dare you to find one enlisted man who says CIF is fair. Someone should be shot over it and we absolutely deserve our $ back from the red-tape racket.

In the CG- Ashore we were paid BAS, then We had to stroke a check to the galley every month for the meals wea actually ate at the unit. ( unless you lived in the barracks-then no BAS)

If you were assigned to barracks (if your unit had them) then you didn’t get BAS and you could eat all meals at the galley free of charge(basically the galley got your BAS money)

Afloat, I could eat 4 meals a day on the ship either underway or tied up-the guys who lived in the barracks at the base could do the same or go to the galley at the base (usually for dinner after the workday-tied up). If our galley was closed for work- the entire crew walked over to the shoreside galley and signed a book and ate there.


WRT officers getting better food aboard ship and ashore. The Os pay for their own food-they get no BAS. So everything in the Wardroom is paid for by the Os, the government isn’t on the hook for any of it-including underway. The Officers ate better than the enlisted because they shoveled out of pocket for it.

Although an officer was assigned to test the enlisted food every day for the Medium Endurance Cutter I was on. On the Patrol Boat the skipper ate with us as he was the only officer.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:
WRT officers getting better food aboard ship and ashore. The Os pay for their own food-they get no BAS. So everything in the Wardroom is paid for by the Os, the government isn’t on the hook for any of it-including underway. The Officers ate better than the enlisted because they shoveled out of pocket for it.

And on the CVNs I was on, the E-7s through E-9s paid even more than the O's did for their food in the Chief's Mess. Steak night on Wednesdays, and Seafood night on Saturdays (lobsters or crablegs AND large shrimp). Their mess bills were often $50-$100 more per month than the O's mess bill. But that was a collective decision on their part.

I read this last night and really glad other military and prior military here are chiming in.

That the article came from Military.com is very disappointing.

The military is not "stealing" or taking money from the troops. The military just isn't giving them the extra allowance.

This would be similar to claiming the Navy stealing sailors' Sea Pay when the sailors are not attached to a ship or boat or stealing the housing allowance from the folks living on base or in base housing.

The young-n-dumb spending his or her money at McDonald's on-base or Dur Dash is the problem. Food in the chow hall is not bad but is is also not tailored for the individual.

When you see "Hot Dog Soup" in the chow line (ie., USS America circa 1984 when returning from a 6-month deployment) cause the Supply Officer ordered too much lobster while on cruise, then you get to complain.