I hope there is a run on guns, ammo, and magazines. The industry was so soft leading up to this that it needs the infusion of cash. The NRA is making money hand over fist right now. Money that they did not expect to take in.

And the best part is......in the end, this is going no where. There will be some ceremonial pandering, and no real meaningful legislation will be passed. Both sides of the isle knows right now that they will pass something to make it appear that both sides are "doing something".

Now, this will not stop the perennial negative nanny's from popping in this thread and fear mongering. Explain to them how this is going nowhere and they'll warn "STAY VIGILANT" or "You'd better buy while you still can!!!!!!!" or some such. Or my favorite "THERE WERE THOSE WHO SAID THE SAME THING IN '94!!!!!!!" And each time, nothing.

Now, if you do want to be scared, let me point this out for just a minute. Imagine where we'd be if HRC had been elected instead. That should scare you.

There isn't much in common with the publicized shootings in the last 10 years except...

-We raise our kids differently, social issues.
-We've been giving them psychotropic drugs which they may or may have stopped taking, mental health issues.
-No one thing this kid may have been enough to commit him, but the preponderance of evidence surely should have drawn enough attention to bring charges that would have prevented the gun purchase. Connect the dots issues.

Fix these if you want to help future victims from, hands and feet, bats and clubs, knives, autos, and any number of other implements. My .02

The other day Rush was saying that the Dems really don't want an AWB bill to pass because it will kill their hope of flipping the house. They'd rather wait until they're in control and then reintroduce it. This bill is just pandering to the base.
Whether you value his opinion or not, it is a possibility.

I searched but found nothing on this in our deliberations so far.
~~~~~~~

Broward State Attorney’s Opened At Least 66 Cases Of Criminal Misconduct Into Sheriff’s Office
Sarah Carter
February 28, 2018


There are more than 66 investigations by the Broward County State Attorney’s office into Broward County Sheriff’s deputies and employees, ranging from drug trafficking to kidnapping since 2012, according to a 2014 Brady list produced by the Broward State Attorney’s office. Forty of the investigations occurred under embattled Sheriff Scott Israel’s watch. His office is now under investigation for allegations that his deputies failed to allow first responders from treating patients at the scene of Stoneman Douglas High School shooting on Feb. 14, and failure of his deputies to enter the school during the rampage that left 17 people dead, according to reports.

Over the weekend Israel fought back on calls for his resignation saying the actions of his deputies were “[not] his responsibility” when they failed to enter the high school that was under siege by Nikolas Cruz, 19. Police responded to calls regarding Cruz over 45 times over a seven-year period, although Israel disputes the report, stating his office only received 23 calls during that time frame. The FBI also received a detailed call on Jan. 5, warning that Cruz had posted disturbing images of slaughtered animals and comments on his Instagram saying he wanted to kill people, according to reports. The FBI stated on Feb. 16, that the tip was not forwarded to the FBI Miami Field Office.

But Israel has long had been criticized for his leadership. While Israel is battling allegations that his office failed to appropriately respond to the Cruz shooting, he is also fighting a civil court case brought by the family of Jermaine McBean, an African-American information technology engineer. McBean was killed in 2013 by Israel’s deputies after they responded to a call that McBean was walking in his neighborhood with what appeared to be a weapon. It was an unloaded air rifle.

McBean, who was listening to music on his earbuds, had just purchased the air rifle and was taking a 10-minute walk home from the store when the bag covering his air rifle blew off. A motorist called 911 saying they saw a man with what appeared to be a weapon but then stated to the 911 officer that it may be an air rifle, according to court records. McBean was eventually confronted by the Sheriff’s deputies Peter Peraza, Lt. Brad Ostroff and Sgt. Richard Laccera when he reached his apartment.

According to David Schoen, the attorney representing McBean’s family in the civil case against the defendants and Israel, witnesses at the scene said McBean’s air rifle was resting on his shoulders, with his arms slung over. McBean couldn’t hear the officers through the earbuds. According to witnesses and court records he eventually turned around and when he did, Peraza fired the shots that led to McBean’s death. Peraza, who had only been working as a deputy for a year, stated to the courts that he feared for his life.

“Approximately 66 BSO (Broward Sheriff’s Office) deputies and other employees, including supervisory personnel were arrested for, charged with, and/or convicted of crimes that run the gamut from Armed Kidnapping, to Battery, Assault, Falsifying records, Official Misconduct, Narcotics trafficking, and other crimes involving dishonesty and violence in the years immediately proceeding 2013 when Jermaine was killed. Most of the offenses on the list occurred in the years 2012-2013,” according to court records filed by Schoen against Israel and the Broward County Sheriff deputy defendants.

“Often the cases against BSO (Broward Sheriff’s Office) employees are resolved by guilty pleas resulting in short or no period of incarceration and a chance for the criminal record to be cleared after a period of time.”

Broward County Sheriff’s office could not be reached immediately for comment.

Three months after the shooting, Israel awarded two of the deputies the BSO’s prestigious “Gold Cross Award.” But under mounting criticism he later told reporters the deputies should not have received the awards, adding that he didn’t award the deputies but couldn’t investigate the matter because someone accidentally destroyed the paperwork, as reported.

Peraza was finally suspended more than two years after McBean’s killing when he finally was indicted for homicide, Schoen and court records state. A local judge dismissed the indictment on stand your ground, allowing the deputy to avoid a jury trial but the Florida Supreme Court, however, has taken the case on review and has vacated the lower court’s order, according to Schoen and recent reports.

The criminal section of the Department of Justice’s civil right’s division now has an open investigation into McBean’s death, Schoen said. Israel is always shifting blame and the “buck never stops with him,” Schoen said. The most current Brady list has not yet been made available and those numbers are expected to increase, he added.

He added that McBean’s family’s civil case against Israel clearly details the failed leadership under Israel.

Israel is named in Schoen’s lawsuit because he oversees “the training, hiring, retention, chain of command, supervision, disciplining, and firing.” He is named based on “supervisory liability, his policies, and for being directly a part of the cover-up through the award process and failure to discipline, thereby ratifying and encouraging in the future this kind of conduct and an environment that rewards it,” Schoen said.

Israel also spoke openly about the McBean case to the media and Schoen said Israel “misled the public as to the true facts surrounding the case,” according to the court documents.

Republican Florida Gov. Rick Scott was urged by 73 colleagues Sunday to suspend Israel.

“Sheriff Israel failed to maintain a culture of alertness, vigilance and thoroughness amongst his deputies,” said Florida House Speaker Richard Corcoran, in a letter released Sunday.

Article continues with a tweet.....

Link

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:
I'm not arguing anything. I simply made a statement based on topics that others have raised since the shooting. Then I answered a few questions about those statements. I'm not out pushing for legislation or anything and I'm not the one who originally proposed the idea.

And it isn't an attempt to deflect from anything. My thoughts on raising the voting age to 21 have nothing to do with Parkland other than it being the event that triggered this entire thread.

This is a discussion forum and so you have to expect that sometimes we might discuss things here. Discussing them isn't arguing and giving a simple opinion here is far different than marching on Washington or writing our representatives.

We can't just pretend like it is 2/13/2018 because it isn't. The world changes every second and it is only natural that as that world changes we might talk about it. If you had asked me on 2/13/2018 or even 2/13/2008 I would have said that I would be fine with raising the age to vote to 21. I only mention it now because it was brought up by a few others.

Take a breath please. I wasn't aiming anything at you specifically regarding this age change issue. My assertion was that the whole issue post Parkland has shifted, with the help of the media and the Dem's (one and the same actually), away from the 'real' problem (i.e. total government's failures) to these other topics (i.e. age change, weapons bans, etc) in an attempt to move the discussion to what the Left wants to discuss, rather than what we 'should' all be focused on. The age change debate happening now is a red herring.

Nothing, and I do mean nothing, related to gun rights and laws should change based upon the Parkland shooting, and that's what we should be hammering our hired prostitutes in Washington with. None of us, including those under 21, should have our rights trampled because government sucks so bad they can't do their damn job.

quote:

Originally posted by Ackks:
I don't care if they do move the age, but why do we have to give up anything? We cave and suddenly it helps Republicans hold the House and Senate? If they don't they get voted out? I don't see how the age thing is going to appease anyone or make middle of the road voters stick with us. All it will do is encourage the progressives and make them push for more the next time something happens. They will just say we didn't go far enough. Again, if it happens it isn't something that will bother me much. I just hope they leave it out of any bill.

I got $20 that says the Dem's will not vote for a bill that only includes a fix to NICS and a change in the age to buy a gun to 21. The current liberal filth is rabid on this issue and they think they have the momentum right now due to the Parkland 'useful idiots' and the media push, so my bet is they aren't going to negotiate one bit on what they want (i.e. some weapons/magazine ban).

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/lo...-20180302-story.html

Nikolas Cruz left at least 180 rounds of ammunition — inside magazines that bore Nazi swastika symbols — at the scene of the Parkland school shooting.

Along with his AR-15 semi-automatic rifle, Cruz abandoned at least six magazines that each contained 30 bullets at the scene of the mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, according to two sources who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Cruz fired more than 100 rounds, killing 17 and injuring 16. There have been reports that Cruz stopped firing because the rifle may have jammed.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Cruz attempted to create this sniper’s nest by shooting out the glass window in the stairwell, firing 16 rounds into the impact glass. Luckily, the hurricane proof window did not shatter.

Cruz then attempted to reload, and after changing magazine clips, the weapon is believed to have jammed, according to three sources familiar with the investigation.

Frustrated, and with police now responding, Cruz dropped the gun in the stairwell, ran down to the ground floor and fled the building with the students. Sources say he still had more than 150 rounds of ammunition left when he fled.

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2018...ida-school-massacre/

quote:

Along with his AR-15 semi-automatic rifle, Cruz abandoned at least six magazines that each contained 30 bullets

I thought that it was determined that he was using 10 round mags? Perhaps he had both. Perhaps the reporting is flawed.

quote:

Originally posted by radioman:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by deepocean:
Why he was not arrested for DV, I shall never know. Would have stopped him from buying a gun.

This is why the school district and the police are all so focused on guns. Otherwise, both would be facing some very hard questions.

"Florida’s Broward County, home to Marjory Stoneman Douglas High, was among the leaders in this nationwide policy shift. According to Washington Post reporting, Broward County schools once recorded more in-school arrests than any other Florida district. But in 2013, the school board and the sheriff’s office agreed on a new policy to discontinue police referrals for a dozen infractions ranging from drug use to assault. (NOTE: There's included harassment, theft less then $300, vandalism under $1000, criminal mischief, alcohol, drugs, drug paraphernalia, disrupting school operation and others.) The number of school-based arrests plummeted by 63 percent from 2012 to 2016. The Obama administration lauded Broward’s reforms, and in 2015 invited the district’s superintendent to the White House for an event, “Rethink Discipline,” that would highlight the success of Broward and other localities’ success in “transforming policies and school climate.”
Confessed killer Nikolas Cruz, a notorious and emotionally disturbed student, was suspended from Stoneman Douglas High. He was even expelled for bringing weapons to school. Yet he was never arrested before the shooting. In a county less devoted to undoing school disciplinary policies, perhaps Cruz would have been arrested for one of his many violent or threatening incidents. When Cruz got into a fight in September of 2016, he was referred to social workers rather than to the police. When he allegedly assaulted a student in January 2017, it triggered a school-based threat assessment—but no police involvement. The Washington Post notes that Cruz “was well-known to school and mental health authorities and was entrenched in the process for getting students help rather than referring them to law enforcement.”
https://www.city-journal.org/h...gh-cracks-15741.html

As one blogger reported:
"2. I spent about 18 months in 2012, 2013 and 2014 investigating Broward and Miami-Dade school policies and how those policies transfer to law enforcement practices.
3. My interest was initially accidental. I discovered an untold story of massive scale and consequence as a result of initial research into Trayvon Martin and his High School life.
4. What I stumbled upon was a Broward County law enforcement system in a state of conflict. The Broward County School Board and District Superintendent, entered into a political agreement with Broward County Law enforcement officials to stop arresting students for crimes.
5. The motive was simple. The school system administrators wanted to "improve their statistics" and gain state and federal grant money for improvements therein."
"13. The police were in a bind. They were encountering evidence of criminal conduct and yet they had to hide the conduct. There were examples of burglary and robbery where the police had to hide the recovered evidence in order to let the kids get away without reports.
14. The police would take the stolen merchandise and intentionally falsify police records to record stolen merchandise *as if* they just found it on the side of the road."
https://threadreaderapp.com/th...854507744374784.html

Cruz was judged, based on his name, as a minority. He couldn't be expelled.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
I got $20 that says the Dem's will not vote for a bill that only includes a fix to NICS and a change in the age to buy a gun to 21. The current liberal filth is rabid on this issue and they think they have the momentum right now due to the Parkland 'useful idiots' and the media push, so my bet is they aren't going to negotiate one bit on what they want (i.e. some weapons/magazine ban).

Probably true. They will find reasons not to vote for it use it to rally their base. The President was very accommodating last week, so I'm sure he will use it against them.

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmanic:

quote:

Along with his AR-15 semi-automatic rifle, Cruz abandoned at least six magazines that each contained 30 bullets

I thought that it was determined that he was using 10 round mags? Perhaps he had both. Perhaps the reporting is flawed.

Only place I heard the ten round magazines statement was from a Democrat politician. I don't necessarily trust them as a source of information given the other "facts" they've been spouting about AR15s and shootings. Given I kept hearing that he fired over a hundred rounds, and had that much or more unfired I was skeptical that he chose to carry 20+ 10 round magazines. I'd easily believe he had one in the rifle to aid concealing it while in his bag, leading to the report of their usage. Then again, I could just be a paranoid sort for having doubt against something that could be helpful if true. I guess time will tell.

If we are going to raise ages, the voting age must also be raised. If we are going to raise the voting we should raise it to thirty.

Some may say that “If you are not liberal and you are under thirty you have no heart.” However, everyone knows that “If you are over thirty and you are not conservative you have no brain.” Clearly, people without brains should not be voting. We might be able to clean up even more stuff than our President has managed so far.

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:
If we are going to raise ages, the voting age must also be raised. If we are going to raise the voting we should raise it to thirty.

Some may say that “If you are not liberal and you are under thirty you have no heart.” However, everyone knows that “If you are over thirty and you are not conservative you have no brain.” Clearly, people without brains should not be voting. We might be able to clean up even more stuff than our President has managed so far.

Be careful. Some people who seldom use them might be judged to be without them.

Next time you hear or see an anti-gunner, use this on them: Iran's Supreme Leader Khameini says Americans should be disarmed, whose side are you on?



https://twitter.com/khamenei_ir/with_replies

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:
Next time you hear or see an anti-gunner, use this on them: Iran's Supreme Leader Khameini says Americans should be disarmed, whose side are you on?

It likely won't have an effect because the commies who want gun bans are the same people who would welcome a National Hug a muslim Day.

came that close to "getting in to it" when I asserted that the problem was 90% social inadequacy.

I walked away so as not to get heated up

I've done some cleaning up in this thread this morning. I didn't start this thread for members to play grab-ass and I damn sure didn't start it- chellim- for members to post trashy clips from trashy SNL doing trashy skits about President Trump. You have no reason to post that crap anywhere in this forum, and especially not in this thread. The day will never come that I'll wish to look at that shit for even a split second. I do not want to ever again see in this forum SNL clips that ridicule the only guy who can help us right now.

I started this thread- reluctantly- so that members could understand why this was a prohibited topic, and to give members a place to discuss the issue and the insanity surrounding the shooting.

jjones said it most recently, and it has been said by many members over and over since the election, but still some just don't get it. The election of Donald Trump to the presidency is what kept us from totalitarian government headed by Hillary Clinton.

Even the blind should have been smacked between the eyes by that fact by now.

quote:

I damn sure didn't start it- chellim- for members to post trashy clips from trashy SNL doing trashy skits about President Trump.

Sorry.
I didn't post that skit because it was funny or good... but just to show the ridiculousness of what passes for humor on the left. I thought it was Predictable Insanity.

Trump tweeted about it today and hit Alec Baldwin pretty good. Most people here don't watch SNL and neither do I (I did as a kid when it was actually funny) but since that skit was in the news I thought people might want to know what was in it.

I don't mean to dogpile, chellim1, but maybe this is a good time for "it's in the news" to not be the standard for whether or not something's posted. There's a an absolute splattering of antigun "articles" on the internutz this morning, every one of which is meant to take the conversation on guns in the direction that the banners want to take it. Mo' bettah that we become or find better sources of topics of conversation than that we feed or spend our time reacting to the zombie that the banners are trying to raise from the dead. There's simply no reason to let the airheads in the crowd seize the initiative.