quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
I think when this is all said and done that Israel's fingerprints will be all over this. I bet that it was BSO's policy not to go in without a bunch of officers. We may never know, though.

Jerry, as usual, appears to have nailed it.

That's what the SRO in this case is apparently claiming (through his lawyer).

He said that the SRO heard shots that he thought to be coming from outside, and believed that the shooter was outside, reinforced by radio reports of at least one body by the football field.

He goes on to say that the BCSO training for an exterior active shooter was for the first officer(s) to take cover and merely relay info to other responding officers.

If what the SRO's lawyer is claiming is actually accurate, it sounds like their active shooter training may have been updated post-Columbine for interior shooters, where they're expected to ride towards the sound of the guns without waiting around for further backup, but they're still being trained in "wait for backup/SWAT" tactics for exterior shooters, which is what the SRO reportedly believed this to be.

The kids needed this guy.

scary that people actually watch MSNBC

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
scary that people actually watch MSNBC

I hit them up every couple of days when I'm looking for a laugh.

Top 5 stories are always TRUMP-RUSSIA-TRUMP-RUSSIA until there is a shooting, then it's GUNZGUNZGUNZGUNZOHYGAWDDDDGUNZ!!

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
I think when this is all said and done that Israel's fingerprints will be all over this. I bet that it was BSO's policy not to go in without a bunch of officers. We may never know, though.

Jerry, as usual, appears to have nailed it.

That's what the SRO in this case is apparently claiming (through his lawyer).

He said that the SRO heard shots that he thought to be coming from outside, and believed that the shooter was outside, reinforced by radio reports of at least one body by the football field.

He goes on to say that the BCSO training for an exterior active shooter was for the first officer(s) to take cover and merely relay info to other responding officers.

If what the SRO's lawyer is claiming is actually accurate, it sounds like their active shooter training may have been updated post-Columbine for interior shooters, where they're expected to ride towards the sound of the guns without waiting around for further backup, but they're still being trained in "wait for backup/SWAT" tactics for exterior shooters, which is what the SRO reportedly believed this to be.

Maybe this has already been addressed in this thread, but a few days ago it was being reported as if someone had been looking at security video during the massacre, maybe relaying what they saw to LE, but that the video was 20 mins behind real time. I wonder if the SRO was being told the gunman was seen outside because that's what someone saw on video.

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
scary that people actually watch MSNBC

It’s Max Headroom!

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by justjoe:
Well, that is understandable, as in many school shootings the shooter stays outside the school and tries to pick off students through the windows. It happened that way in...let's see...no, maybe that's not the one... well, come to think of it NEVER.

There have been exterior school shooters before. Interior active shooters are much more common, but it's not accurate to say that there has never been an exterior school shooter.

Like Jonesboro, Arkansas in 1998, which was the first of the modern high-profile mass school shootings, predating even Columbine by a year. The fire alarm was pulled by one shooter (just like this this Florida shooting). The first shooter then left the school and took up a position in the woods outside the school with a second shooter. The two shooters then used rifles to pick off students and teachers as they exited the building for the fire alarm/drill.


Specifically regarding your proposed example of someone shooting into windows from outside, just such a school shooting occurred in Rancho Tehama, California a few months ago in November 2017. Guy rams his truck through the gate of an elementary school, then because the school building itself is locked, goes into the central quad and begins firing into windows and through walls with his AR15.


There are other examples as well. If you have time and want to dig further into interior vs. exterior, here's a Wikipedia link with info and links on all the school shootings in the US:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...in_the_United_States

The sad truth is that, specifically because of the new emphasis on locked doors in schools, lockdown drills, etc., I expect the number of exterior school shooters will only increase from here on out.


Yes, it's potentially just a lame excuse in this case. But an exterior shooter is not an impossibility, and shouldn't be outright dismissed as preposterous.

Especially considering that in this specific Florida shooting, some of the victims were reportedly hit while outside the building, and more students were continuing to exit the building due to the fire alarm. When this Florida investigation is complete, I suspect it will reveal that a portion of this shooting did occur outside, based just on the limited information released on the location of victims.

Could have been cowardice. Could have been confusion/bad info/lack of info/etc. about the actual location of the shooter. Very likely could have been a combination of those, resulting in "vapor lock" in the SRO's mind. The old idea of a "fight or flight" response is only partially accurate. It's now recognized that there are at least three common physiological responses to stressful, confusing situations: fight, flight, or freeze. (Some combat psychologists go even further, adding in one or more additional options, like posture or submit, depending on how detailed they want to get.)

The Wiki link is interesting, but it is not a listing of only school shootings. Many of the listings don't involve guns at all, but rather knives and other weapons.

The Arkansas shooting in 1998 was indeed a mass shooting: 4 students killed, and the two shooters were outside. In the shooting at Rancho Tehama--firing through a window-- two students were hit, neither fatally. Not a mass shooting, nothing like what we are talking about in Florida. I didn't scour through the extensive listings for other examples of outside the school shooters. But for sure all the horrible examples from our times-- involving far more than 4 deaths-- from Columbine on-- have been shooters inside the school.

I would not extend that cowardly deputy any benefit of a doubt based on rare cases of outside shooters that don't resemble the carnage of Parkland.

"Could have been cowardice."

Ya. Hiding under a stairwell with his weapon and wearing a vest? Maybe.

quote:

Originally posted by justjoe:
The Wiki link is interesting, but it is not a listing of only school shootings. Many of the listings don't involve guns at all, but rather knives and other weapons.

Try again. It's specifically shootings only, involving the discharge of a firearm. Doesn't involve stabbings/bombings/etc. From the intro:

quote:

...incidents in which a firearm was discharged at a school infrastructure or campus, including incidents of shootings on a school bus. This list contains school shooting incidents that occurred on the campuses of K-12 public schools and private schools, as well as colleges and universities.

It excludes incidents that occurred during wars or police actions, as well as murder-suicides by rejected suitors or estranged spouses, and suicides or suicide attempts involving only one person. Mass shootings by staff of schools that involve only other employees are covered at workplace killings. This list does not include bombings...

I see three events that involve knives, but those were in addition to the guns involved. Only one of these three events is questionable for inclusion on that list, in that the student/aggressor was armed with a knife, and was shot by a victim/teacher armed with a gun. That was back in 1909 anyway. Technically a "school shooting", but not in the usual sense.

One other questionable inclusion involved shooting people with a pellet gun, which doesn't meet the definition of a "firearm" (except in certain restrictive locales), and therefore shouldn't be on the list.

I will grant that not all of the shootings in that list are cut-and-dried traditional school shootings. Some are shootings during gang-related fights, for example. Others are shooting incidental to other crimes, like an armed robbery gone bad, rather than specific targeted school shootings/killings. A few just happened to occur on school property, but were after hours.

But you can still sort out the "true school shootings" in the list, with a modicum of effort. My point in including that link wasn't to say "these are all the true school shootings", but merely to provide an easier means for someone so inclined to gather more details on the means/methods of prior school shooters.

quote:

Originally posted by justjoe:
In the shooting at Rancho Tehama--firing through a window-- two students were hit, neither fatally. Not a mass shooting, nothing like what we are talking about in Florida.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this, merely because there weren't large numbers of victims. Just because many potential victims were lucky not to have been hit doesn't make it any less meaningful.

To be clear: this Rancho Tehama incident was a true school shooting, with an armed individual attempting to kill innocent little kids. He was just foiled by some of the security measures, like the school being on lockdown with all the students inside behind locked doors, thankfully resulting in minimal injuries.

Had the same scenario happened while the students were at recess, or at an outdoor pep rally or football game, or loading/unloading buses, or outside during a fire drill, that exterior school shooter can do just as much damage as an interior shooter, with fewer possible options available to the staff as far as locking doors/hiding/barricading/etc.

There are also other exterior school shootings on the list.

Exterior school shooters are a real threat, and should not be discounted so easily. They can, and do, happen.

And as I mentioned in my earlier post, I'm afraid that with all the focus on interior security planning and training, more mass shooters will simply alter their plans to target students when they're vulnerable outside from here on out.

Peterson statement

Jeanine Piro Rips Sheriff:

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
Peterson statement

Why did he immediately retire when faced with suspension and investigation?

Not only that, but that douchebag sheriff has already been on TV saying that he did everything wrong.

^^^Israel's top priority is to cover his own ass.

quote:

Originally posted by pessimist:
Why did he immediately retire when faced with suspension and investigation?

Yeah, it smell s bit fishy all around, but the BSO has been great at attempting to explain away things / re-engineer responses.

Or maybe Sheriff Coward threatened him and he didn't realize exactly how bad getting thrown under the bus would be.

Regardless, he's sitting there while kids get shot, even with all the cool tactical radio talking he said he's doing.

quote:

Originally posted by pessimist:
Why did he immediately retire when faced with suspension and investigation?

Because literally no one else thought the shooter was outside, teachers, coaches and other students were running to the sound of the gunfire to render aid while he cowered in a stair well. He had to get with a lawyer to come up with some kind of story to cover his ass so he could collect his retirement.

quote:

Originally posted by pessimist:
Why did he immediately retire when faced with suspension and investigation?

It was a rhetorical question. He's throwing a lot of shit at the wall to see what sticks in a pathetic attempt to save himself. It clearly demonstrates that this guy doesn't feel an ounce of shame.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
Always liked his take, and I think he hits a number of nails on the head with this one.

[FLASH_VIDEO]<iframe frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/m2cXChSsd2k" width="560"></iframe>[/FLASH_VIDEO]

He makes perfect sense. I like his opinions too - he's a good dude.

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
scary that people actually watch MSNBC

They were getting trashed online when he came up with that nonsense, but MSNBC is sticking with it and using it as a talking point:

from Conservative Treehouse

The photo with the Lamborghini reminds me of my local sheriff's deputies from years back. They were driving around in glossy white, badged hummers. Every time I saw them it used to gnaw at me. I would marvel at how they could actually get away with it. Near the end, they had stenciling put on the rear window stating that the vehicle was a donation!

Any agency that's political is corrupt. The fact that four of the deputies did not go into the school makes me suspect that they may have quite a few people wearing badges that are not true LEO in the typical sense.