quote:

Originally posted by erj_pilot:

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Looks like chickenshit may be contagious in Coward, I mean Broward County.

I guess "To protect and defend..." isn't part of their creed, huh?

Nah, it is. It is "To protect and defend <my life and pension>".

Or maybe they are just a poorly training and lead Sheriffs Department.

quote:

Originally posted by nojoy:
Interesting:

http://reason.com/blog/2018/02...ff-scott-israel-accu

Sounds like this guy studied the Chicago Democratic Machine Manual that Daly Sr and his predecessors wrote.

Kinda blows holes in the "you don't need a gun, call the police, they'll make you safe"
No disrespect intended to all of the officers that lay it all on the line everyday.

quote:

Originally posted by Ackks:...
There is a difference between doing what they have to do if they are close and running down hallways going into situations they aren't trained for. Do what they have to do, use common sense, but it shouldn't be a license to hunt them down in another part of the school. If it is then train them to do so.

Your choice of words is losing your argument for you.

No one thus far (as I can see in this forum) is advocating the "search and destroy" or LRRP you suggest. But being in the classroom, or a hallway or anywhere someone intending harm might face such an armed individual.

People are considering not standing in the way of the right of anyone to keep and bear arms in defense of themselves, and others, and the very likelihood that some of these whack jobs will go find a "softer" target, not knowing if they will find they have confronted someone who can and will present deadly force.

That, and only that.

Stick to this point on this argument.



I would rather we fix what is screwed up in our country, but we will not reach that point anytime soon.

In the mean time, if I had the means, believe me, I would unfetter each and every person I could to take up arms in any place.

I rather face the sharks in the ocean, with a means to fight back with some effectiveness, than to sit in someone's fishbowl, at a level they deem safe and secure for me.

quote:

"When Coral Springs police officers arrived at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, on February 14 in the midst of the school shooting crisis, many officers were surprised to find not only that Broward County Sheriff's Deputy Scot Peterson, the armed school resource officer, had not entered the building, but that three other Broward County Sheriff's deputies were also outside the school and had not entered, Coral Springs sources tell CNN. The deputies had their pistols drawn and were behind their vehicles, the sources said, and not one of them had gone into the school.

So then, Israel, a typical, liberal, Democrat blowhard, is making loud and bold statements about gun control, and how seriously should we take his talking points when his own officers won't protect their citizens in this situation? All the more reasons for the citizens to be armed, I say.

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmanic:

quote:

"When Coral Springs police officers arrived at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, on February 14 in the midst of the school shooting crisis, many officers were surprised to find not only that Broward County Sheriff's Deputy Scot Peterson, the armed school resource officer, had not entered the building, but that three other Broward County Sheriff's deputies were also outside the school and had not entered, Coral Springs sources tell CNN. The deputies had their pistols drawn and were behind their vehicles, the sources said, and not one of them had gone into the school.

So then, Israel, a typical, liberal, Democrat blowhard, is making loud and bold statements about gun control, and how seriously should we take his talking points when his own officers won't protect their citizens in this situation? All the more reasons for the citizens to be armed, I say.

Also reinforces our counter argument to these anti-gun fools - "Fuck You", period.

I just read the last 5 pages of this thread, I'll tell you when you do a binge read and see the story unfold in fast time this thing should have heads rolling, voters up in arms, the children back to eating their Tide-pods and some serious shutting the fuck up on the part of those that think this is about the gun. The sacrifice of children for political correctness, ass-covering incompetence, cowardice and career positioning makes me weep.

John Farnam, the gun trainer says with boring regularity, 'we are on our own'. How right he is.

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:
We are getting ahead of ourselves here though. First thing we need to do is figure out how to get armed teachers in the schools in the first place. Then we can debate what SOP is.

It's a simple matter (that's relative of course) of the state legislature making it happen. There are already more than one state that allow their teachers and anyone else who is a legal concealed carry permit holder to carry in school.

quote:

First thing we need to do is figure out how to get armed teachers in the schools in the first place.

Stop infringing.

The police response to this shooting was abysmal. Surely the sheriff won't survive this debacle. I can't help thinking about the brave ROTC kid putting it all on the line while these professionals cowered outside.

On a side note- We're also at war with islamic terrorists who hit soft spots. The idea of proactively doing more to protect the schools is just common sense.

If the schools were 100% secure the whackjobs will just move to another venue.

quote:

Originally posted by bdylan:
The police response to this shooting was abysmal. Surely the sheriff won't survive this debacle. I can't help thinking about the brave ROTC kid putting it all on the line while these professionals cowered outside.

When the chips are down, boys became real men, and men became cowards.

I never would have guessed that Condi Rice would do this. Her father protected their neighborhood at the height of the civil rights movement with a group of pastors who armed themselves. Sad to see such a smart woman succumb to emotional nonsense.

Condi Rice: it’s time to discuss what 2nd Amendment ‘means in the modern world’

Former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Friday that it’s time to discuss what the Second Amendment “means in the modern world” in light of last week’s mass school shooting in Parkland, Florida.

Ms. Rice, who served under President George W. Bush, said that while the Second Amendment remains “indivisible,” she doesn’t think civilians should have access to guns like the AR-15, which was used by 19-year-old Nikolas Cruz to fatally shoot 17 students and teachers on Valentine’s Day.

“I think it is time to have a conversation about what the right to bear arms means in the modern world,” she told radio talk show host Hugh Hewitt. “I don’t understand why civilians need to have access to military weapons. We wouldn’t say you can go out and buy a tank.”

“But I believe that the rights that we have in the Constitution are indivisible,” she added. “We can’t throw away the Second Amendment and keep the First.”

Ms. Rice, a political science professor at Stanford University, said she’s also uncomfortable with the idea of allowing teachers to carry guns in the classroom.

“I don’t really like the idea, frankly, of a gun in my classroom,” she said. “I think that we need to have law enforcement protect us. Look, if people need to train people to protect our schools, and perhaps even communities want to consider whether or not they need guards to protect the schools, it’s a sad thing to think that we might, then that’s something that we should look at.”

I have three kids in school; one at all three levels, one in college and my wife is an elementary teacher. F&#k yeah I want the option of having teachers and staff armed, the districts providing funds and incentives for training, law enforcement in schools and I favor not only concealed carry, but a liberal smattering of pump shotguns, secured obviously, throughout the schools. Nothing more scary to a cowardly perp than the sound of a shotgun racking, all of this on top of securing the schools. Enough of this damn 'gun free zone target rich environment bullshit'!

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:

“I don’t really like the idea, frankly, of a gun in my classroom,” she said. “I think that we need to have law enforcement protect us.

Yeah, like the FOUR ARMED POLICE who cowered outside the school while a maniac had free reign to murder away.

Shut up, Condi. This incident PROVES that the whole "The Police will protect us" line is a giant lie.

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:
I never would have guessed that Condi Rice would do this.

I just lost absolutely all respect for her. Jesus, what drivel.

Ummm wow. There was a time I had wanted to see her as a Presidential candidate. Disappointing.

quote:

Originally posted by Ackks:

There is a difference between doing what they have to do if they are close and running down hallways going into situations they aren't trained for. Do what they have to do, use common sense, but it shouldn't be a license to hunt them down in another part of the school. If it is then train them to do so.

Given the choice of:

A) Unimpeded killer roaming the school murdering innocents at will

or

B) Having an 'untrained' civilian with at least a pistol hunting down the perp

I will choose B every time.

My God, I know this isn't an ideal scenario, but it's better than the current situation (which is turning our schools into undefended killing zones).

I say it is worth the risk to have an armed staff member hunting down the killer. We have seen that the 'do nothing' approach doesn't work.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:
We are getting ahead of ourselves here though. First thing we need to do is figure out how to get armed teachers in the schools in the first place. Then we can debate what SOP is.

It's a simple matter (that's relative of course) of the state legislature making it happen. There are already more than one state that allow their teachers and anyone else who is a legal concealed carry permit holder to carry in school.

In VA, for now at least, LEOSA certified retired officers can carry anywhere a sworn officer can carry, including schools.

§ 18.2-308. Carrying concealed weapons; exceptions; penalty.

A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material;....

C. Except as provided in subsection A of § 18.2-308.012, this section shall not apply to:

2. Any law-enforcement officer, or retired law-enforcement officer pursuant to § 18.2-308.016, wherever such law-enforcement officer may travel in the Commonwealth;


§ 18.2-308.1. Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited; penalty.

B. If any person knowingly possesses any firearm designed or intended to expel a projectile by action of an explosion of a combustible material while such person is upon (i) any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds; (ii) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place; or (iii) any school bus owned or operated by any such school, he is guilty of a Class 6 felony.

The exemptions set out in §§ 18.2-308 and 18.2-308.016 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section......
(iv) any law-enforcement officer, or retired law-enforcement officer qualified pursuant to subsection C of § 18.2-308.016;

VA code

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:
Former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Friday that it’s time to discuss what the Second Amendment “means in the modern world” in light of last week’s mass school shooting in Parkland, Florida.

“I don’t understand why civilians need to have access to military weapons. We wouldn’t say you can go out and buy a tank.”

Hey Condi, that's what the democrats say. You're supposed to be a republican.

The Founders may not have foreseen the weapons of our day, but they were visionary men who meant what they said when they wrote the 2nd Amendment. Stop trying to minimize who they were or what they intended. The Constitution is as relevant today as it was the day they signed it.