Several decades ago, I attended my father’s annual Fourth of July BBQ at his home in Acton, California. It was a pretty big deal for he, his wife, and especially my wife and I this year as in prior years to this 4th of July, I’d been required to work at my police department in Southern California as had nearly all personnel had. This was due to the size of the crowd visiting our beach, so as to view the City’s annual fireworks display. This year was different, as the previous year’s festivities were ruined due to the level of criminal activity. Four victims were murdered that day and the level of violence (mostly due to gang warfare) was simply too much for a department our size to cope with. The evening fireworks event was cancelled and for the first time in years, I could spend time with family, out of uniform and miles away from the craziness that I knew would still be in the beach city that employed me, but not at the previous year’s level.

In addition to the usual family and friends, my father had an interesting guest in attendance. My dad worked for a major television network and he’d met a gentleman who was visiting from St. Petersburg in the USSR. Neither were political wonks. My father was a videotape editor and technical director and his new acquaintance was in charge of some kind of power plant. Glasnost was upon us and my dad met this man who’d been permitted to visit our country as part of the new freedoms heralding the end of the communist state. When my dad extended an invitation to an American BBQ on “Independence Day” (the most American of all holidays), the visitor (sorry, but I don’t recall his name) readily accepted it.

When my wife and I were introduced to my dad’s Russian special guest, Dad proudly told him that I was a police officer and (having experienced a ride-along recently himself) suggested that maybe he’d find it interesting to have me provide a tour of the station if he wanted one. The guest was very interested in learning firsthand what a police station and policing in general was like in America and in particular, in Southern California. A day or two later, the guest arrived at my station and I gave him the tour. I showed him our cars and the equipment therein, I took him to the jail, our dispatch room, the Report room (where officers were audio recording the narratives of their police reports, to be transcribed later, so they could return to the field sooner), and introduced him to our “ID Techs” who did most of our forensic work, including latent print work using the still new automated fingerprint analysis system, “Cal-ID.”

While I was showing off some of the things that I believed made our department one of the most progressive agencies in the area, I was notified that our POA (union) secretary needed to see me about something. The POA Lounge, was a concession we’d won during a previous negotiation with the City and it was a nice place not only for her to work in but provided some other benefits for our officers. We had a table or two for dining, if we wanted to take our lunch breaks there instead of in public. We had some comfortable couches to watch TV from, a video game (Pacman, I believe) to use, and a walled off area with bunkbeds that was a very welcome touch. When our Night Watch officers got off their shifts at 3:00 and had court in the morning, previously they had limited choices: Drive home (sometimes 30 or more miles), get a couple hours of sleep in and fight the traffic back for their 9:00 court appearances; sleep in their cars in the City parking lot (not particularly safe), or sleep in an unused jail cell. Now officers that were EOW or sleepy and wanted to use their 45 minute lunch break for rest instead of eating, could safely get some sleep in a place where they could be awakened by either our POA Secretary or the Watch Commander when they were needed.

I took my guest with me to the POA lounge, introduced him to our secretary Linda, and after signing the paperwork that was the original purpose for my being there, explained to my new Russian friend what the lounge was for and why we (officers) needed and had our own secretary. I also took a few minutes to explain to him what our union did for us, in addition to negotiating for our contracts with the City. I explained how they helped ensure our contractual rights as well as obligations were met, not just for financial benefits, but to provide us with a safer working environment. We had minimum staffing levels so an officer responding to dangerous calls, wouldn’t be dealing with the incident alone or waiting too long for backup. We had a legal defense fund, that provided us with qualified lawyers if we’d become involved in a serious incident that had the potential for administrative, civil, or even criminal repercussions.

Through my own personal experience, I’d learned that certain managers weren’t above using their power to harass, intimidate, or even unfairly discipline those who’d done the right thing legally, but earned the wrath of a “superior” that felt retaliation was justified. In some cases, this might mean rebuffs from sexual harassment, in others it was because our officers were victims or witnesses to unlawful discrimination or other wrongdoing.

I explained to my guest that our POA and the power it had, insured our officers were protected under state, local, and federal law, including the Constitution of our country. For cops to survive in a frequently hostile environment, we needed to know that even winning on the street, administratively, or in civil or even criminal court wouldn’t mean the cost of our defense had bankrupted the officer(s) financially. My guest nodded and we continued our tour.

At the conclusion of the tour, I think I gave my guest a patch from my department and he seemed appreciative of both my efforts and of the organization I was proud to represent. This was the last time I met with my Dad’s new friend, but not the last I’d heard about him. A few days later, Dad called and said he’d been contacted by our guest. The man told my father that he’d been impressed with me and the police department. He thought our technology was extremely advanced, and our people were well trained. He was in awe of the son my father had raised and inspired by the fact that I’d been honest with him overall and had only found it necessary (in my guest’s opinion) to have lied to him only once.

My dad asked the Russian what he’d thought I lied to him about, after insisting that he was sure that I hadn’t. The Russian reassured my father that he knew what the lie was and understood I was probably ordered to give it from my superiors. When pressed for specifics, he told my dad that the “lie” was having police officers that were unionized. He believed the POA, our secretary, the lounge, and the benefits I’d described were all false. Police officers were tools of “the state” in his view and would never be allowed the freedom and benefits I’d described to him. Even in the rapidly evolving USSR, if a police officer had dared to organize fellow officers in such a manner, the officer would be summarily "shot.”

The Russian friend wasn’t kidding about either his opinion of the representations I’d made regarding our union and it’s benefits, what they thought of cops having those benefits in Russia, or how they’d deal with an officer(s) that attempted to form a union to provide them the same protections as those working in other occupations. Seeing the BLM movement and other leftist “civil libertarians” demands to prohibit police unions, brings back memories of this Russian manager. His pleasant demeanor, polite attitude, and apparent honesty were reassuring, but what kind of system (socialism) breeds this kind of intolerance for protection of individual rights, and assurance that even police officers have such rights? Think about what would happen if officers were ingrained with this kind of attitude towards people generally, and how they’d do the bidding of an all powerful state.

Good report and interesting viewpoint from your Russian guest. I think much of the general public think all LE agencies have unions which demand unrealistic benefits, which is inaccurate.

The AZ agency I retired from specifically prohibited agency unionization in the state constitution. We could have a legislative lobbyist to present our budget requests to lawmakers (which was largely ignored). We received a annual lump sum budget and told to stretch it. We went years without salary increases which kept us at the bottom of the salary scale for LE in the state.

Large city agencies have the strongest union representation.

I have never worked in a union shop. I have a good boss. However, the county fathers are all idiots with lefty agendas. The Judge Executive ran on beefing up LE because that is what the people want. Once elected, he has been openly hostile towards law enforcement. He has lied to everyone repeatedly. He is a dirt bag.

I never would have thought that I would have ever saw this before. They are openly hostile towards LE, to the point that they intentionally list undercover vehicles in county business meetings.

For these reasons, I think a union is now needed. They county road department is the only branch of government that doesn't get screwed with constantly. Because they are union.

Yeah, we're not union either. But I can definitely see the benefits.

I know unionization is often frowned upon as being strictly a leftist tool to help malcontents evade agency oversight, but being in one has proven to me that this is not nearly the case. For us, the union has been the only thing protecting the legal rights of the employee And keeping power hungry managers in check.

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:
I know unionization is often frowned upon as being strictly a leftist tool to help malcontents evade agency oversight, but being in one has proven to me that this is not nearly the case. For us, the union has been the only thing protecting the legal rights of the employee And keeping power hungry managers in check.

And of course how often are those "power hungry managers" working directly under the auspicious of power hungry politicians (demagogues)?

No unions in NC.
Man that would have been nice. A protection against higher ups who through fear and intimidation bent officers to their wills. No threats in roll cal where the Major said,”if you don’t like it leave-there’s a line of applicants who will take your place faster than you can believe”
No BS IAs started by the brass because they saw your traffic stop and thought you were being condescending to a citizen...IAs that never told you the complaint or what you had been accused of- just a page that told you of an IA and please provide a written statement to you interaction...instead of being able to know who or why someone started an IA...

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:
For us, the union has been the only thing protecting the legal rights of the employee And keeping power hungry managers in check.

Honest question: If they're LEGAL rights-- e.g. provided by law and not by contract/CBA-- what does the union actually do?

my problem - well one anyway - with unions is : how hard they make it to get rid of the 'bad egg' when there is one in dire need of being dismissed

several big articles written in the WSJ about this topic recently

malfeasance, laziness, substance abuse, disrespect, racist, sustained lack of improvement, etc

a healthy organization that is trying to improve should always be looking to hammer the bottom 5-10% out of the organization. if you are consistently in the bottom 5-10% in performance -- you should be afraid

(overly-powerful) unions don't allow for that

but i understand the desire to have some protection from over-zealous politicians. i totally get that in this day and age.

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quote:

Originally posted by DennisM:

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:
For us, the union has been the only thing protecting the legal rights of the employee And keeping power hungry managers in check.

Honest question: If they're LEGAL rights-- e.g. provided by law and not by contract/CBA-- what does the union actually do?

Unions provide legal representation (attorneys) through programs that all members contribute to. If cops had to pay out of pocket expenses for individual cases, even relatively minor (but baseless) allegations of administrative, civil, or criminal violations would cost $$$$$$$$, that wouldn't be reimbursed. This, even after successfully prevailing in court. You could win, but the "victory" might very well bankrupt you.

Non-leo union feedback.......

Having been a union member for many years in a pipe-fitter / service local, I could see the benefits of a union - for one, pay scale was considerably better in south Florida for union than non-union. Pay scale in other areas of the state wasn't much better though.

Hiring was typically done by the skill of the individual rather than seniority / time on the out-of-work list, even though union regs required first on the list were first hired.

Overall benefits were significant as contractor's were held to the bargaining agreement relative to hours worked & pay , not much else mattered, if you got in a beef with the employer, you got sent back to the hall. The union here I believe never held more than 30% of the work at any point, though much of the more sophisticated work is done by union shops. Being a right-to-work state makes a difference, as well most of the big shops (national signers) have a no-strike clause.

Once we joined the FOP, my benefits and pay increased drastically. Prior to unionization, we were understaffed, worked undermanned and were threatened with lay offs. My dept. was once forced to buy used Hertz rental cars for patrol! And the politicians who controlled the PD could not have cared less. Binding arbitration put a stop to most of the BS we had to deal with.
At the national level, I think the FOP sux. But locally we made it work. IIRC, my dues were 20 bucks a month and worth every dime.

My take away from this is that the Soviet was still so much in the dark that he did not believe the OP. Talk about oppression. Who knows what other BS they are being fed.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
Once we joined the FOP, my benefits and pay increased drastically. Prior to unionization, we were understaffed, worked undermanned and were threatened with lay offs. My dept. was once forced to buy used Hertz rental cars for patrol! And the politicians who controlled the PD could not have cared less. Binding arbitration put a stop to most of the BS we had to deal with.
At the national level, I think the FOP sux. But locally we made it work. IIRC, my dues were 20 bucks a month and worth every dime.

Your FOP could collective bargain for you?

Geez, our local FOP was nothing more than a nightly watering hole for drunks. I dropped out when to many were being arrested by the DUI task force I was on. They demanded 'special consideration'.

What immediately comes to mind was the worthless Officer I once worked with who did maybe 30% of what the rest of us did. Many times covering a call in HIS area while he was on shift. He was always too far away, the other side of the County, etc. He would NEVER assist others, but he surely needed himself it and often.

I recall approaching him once on an incident where he skirked his duty and others had to cover a situation that he clearly should have responded to.

He smugly told me to "contact our Union Rep about this".

Same thing when approached by a supervisor about almost anything. His reply was usually "Do I need a Union Rep present"?

During my 23 yrs on a State Agency the Union did little for us, short of deducting forty bucks a month from my paycheck.

You bet the FOP could bargain for us. I am ex-president of our lodge. And our lodge building does not have a liquor license. Or even a bar!

I am generally against public sector unions.

I have managed unionized factory workers represented by the UAW, IUE, and Steelworkers. The one thing that limits private sector unions is competition. If the business becomes too inefficient it fails, so the union has skin in the game. The factory workers union at my current employer is exclusive to our company so they have more skin in the game compared to a larger multi-company union.

Public sector unions represent government workers that already have a de facto monopoly - there is no competition that would replace them if they become too inefficient. Plus, the unions make political contributions to elect officials that favor the union's interest, all of which really comes from the taxpayers.

So our taxes go to salaries for public workers that have to pay dues to the union that then uses the dues to advocate for politicians without the workers or taxpayers consent. And the union negotiates with the politicians about how the government works, even though the union is not elected by the voters.

That said, I am willing to consider the necessity of unions for police officers primarily to protect them (and the public) from political corruption.

quote:

I am generally against public sector unions.

+1

The founders of the labor movement viewed unions as a vehicle to get workers more of the profits they help create. Government workers, however, don’t generate profits. They merely negotiate for more tax money. When government unions strike, they strike against taxpayers. F.D.R. considered this “unthinkable and intolerable.”

“It is impossible to bargain collectively with the government.”

Public sector unions insist on laws that serve their interests -- at the expense of the common good.

The teachers unions have destroyed education.

What Was FDR’s Stance on Government Unions?
https://showmeinstitute.org/bl...ce-government-unions

Good point on the public sector unions, had overlooked that from my perspective in the private sector.

I spent 10 years in the Air Force, in a Civil Engineering outfit. Depending on where I was stationed 1/3 to 1/2 our shop was civilian of which all were union members & there was a good bit of getting away with bad behavior, or not being productive while the rest of the shop(s) had to account for their lack.

All of my family members retired from the Trades Unions: (Carpenters, Pipe fitters and Machinist) mainly in Ohio.

I worked in both the Carpenters and Laborers Union in Columbus, OH.

Even though there are many negatives with the trades Union especially the last few years where they have consolidated districts, I feel the positives out weigh the negatives.
This is Especially true regarding pay. I cannot believe how little the pay scale is in Virginia and North Carolina.

When I finally was able to break into Law Enforcement it was in the South where Unions are verboten. It would have been nice to have some type of representation especially after all the Officers I saw get screwed in Virginia and including myself.

Yeah, I hear the stories about how the Union protects one bad egg from being fired, but my question is: What about the 9 other good eggs that screwed over who had no representation.

I am looking to relocate back to either Ohio, ND or SD to get back into the trades Union.