quote:

Originally posted by SR:
Rules for carrying a side arm vary by state. In NC you can carry a .22 and dispatch a wounded animal.

From the regulations
During established archery season only a .22-caliber rimfire pistol may be used to dispatch deer (see “Retrieval”). Link

I have bowhunted in several states, that's the first time I have heard of the legal ability to dispatch a game animal with a firearm during an archery season. It's seem even stranger that it specifies .22 rim fire.

quote:

Originally posted by FN in MT:
I'm NOT saying the hunter screwed up. Just saying I wonder whats the rest of the story?

Was it a poorly placed shot? Possibly equipment not as good as it could be? Lots of variables.

Why does it matter? Even rifle hunters don’t always make a perfect shot so a less than perfect archery shot is part of the deal and quite common. It’s very common to put an arrow through an animal right before dark and instead of trailing it and potentially having it run off for miles pumped up on adrenaline you should leave it be. Normally they will lay down if not being tracked and bleed out during the night.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 1s1k,

Archery hunting is challenging and unpredictable. I wouldn't be quick to judge the guy unless there's proof he took an unethical shot. As others have said, tracking a woulded animal is near impossible in the dark and can be dangerous.
Ive seen seasoned hunter tear thenselves apart over wounding an animal so don't assume hunters are heartless. They care more about the animal than the animal rights activist ever could.

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:
We will never know. I still don't know what happened with that doe. Bow was tuned, broadheads sharp, shot looked and felt clean. Never seen one run more than 50 yards and pile up under those same conditions. Grid searched for several hours with 2 buddies after reworking the blood trail on hands and knees.....weird.

Could a bear or big cat have carried it off?

quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:
We will never know. I still don't know what happened with that doe. Bow was tuned, broadheads sharp, shot looked and felt clean. Never seen one run more than 50 yards and pile up under those same conditions. Grid searched for several hours with 2 buddies after reworking the blood trail on hands and knees.....weird.

Could a bear or big cat have carried it off?

Not likely in my scenario. No bears here and Cougar are pretty sparse as well. Likely didn't hit it as well as I thought or walked within a few feet of it 100 times and didn't see it in the thick brush. I have since acquired and trained a tracking dog and haven't lost one since.

An enraged elk! Just imagine what would have happened if it was an angry Knights of Pythias or Sons of Knute.

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
My sympathies are with the elk. Wounded, it must’ve had a bad night.

I am sure it did, and unfortunately it occasionally happens. But, a animal inadvertently wounded by a hunter, who presumably acted ethnically and made the proper attempt to dispatch it as quickly as possible, suffered considerably less than diseased or starving animals due to overpopulation.

quote:

Originally posted by amc:
Archery hunting is challenging and unpredictable. I wouldn't be quick to judge the guy unless there's proof he took an unethical shot. As others have said, tracking a woulded animal is near impossible in the dark and can be dangerous.

Correct

I don't know what the situation was here, but we see far too many wounded deer from "archers" who can't shoot for shit. You owe it to the game to have the skills to make a killing shot, whether hunting with bow or rifle.

Elk are huge game, and shooting a lethal shot into them is a totally different story than the whitetail we have around here. Even a well placed shot can fail to shut them down like one might think it would.

I was almost run over once by a cow elk, and I can tell you that sitting in a folding chair and having her run at me full tilt (she didn't see me, what with the camo and the sorghum around me) was quite a rush.

It's pretty standard protocol to not chase wounded elk or deer, the theory being that if you leave them alone they run a shorter distance and generally expire there vs chasing them miles and miles (and likely losing them).

This is an unfortunate situation that had a terrible ending for both predator and prey.

quote:

Assuming he had one, I believe that that may be prohibited at certain times by hunting regulations.

Comments by the knowledgeable—?

No modern firearms in Minnesota...unless you have a Carry Permit. And that rule changed not that long ago.

quote:

Originally posted by slabsides45:
It's pretty standard protocol to not chase wounded elk or deer, the theory being that if you leave them alone they run a shorter distance and generally expire there vs chasing them miles and miles (and likely losing them).

That, and as I understand it, it stresses the animal. That’s a problem for two reasons. The first obvious one is that it’s more humane to leave them to expire peacefully. The second being that a stressed animal will release cortisol into the blood stream and ruin the flavor of the meat.

I’m not a hunter, so maybe my logic is flawed. If I was out with a bow and arrow trying to take down a big ass elk, I would have something like a .357 in my pocket at minimum.
If it’s me or the elk, I’m going home to my wife. Is it illegal, maybe. I still choose life.
I would rather take my chances with a jury, than battle an elk unarmed.

Maybe that’s why I’m not a hunter.

Reminds us that man doesn't always come out on top. Any of us that have hunted go into it knowing that something is going to be killed during the hunt, sometimes its us.

It wouldn't be the sport of hunting if the animal didn't sometimes get the upper hand.

I once shot a bull elk with a 338 Win Mag and it was a good front shoulder shot. That bull ran all the way to the bottom of the canyon before expiring. We spent two days hiking to the bottom of that canyon, quartering and packing him out. Anyone that has hunted elk knows that they are hard animals to bring down even with modern firearms. Most elk need to be pursued after being shot with archery equipment.

quote:

Originally posted by LBTRS:
It wouldn't be the sport of hunting if the animal didn't sometimes get the upper hand.

I am not opposed to ethical hunting, and American hunters can be proud of the fact that it has generally become more ethical even in my lifetime. But other than occasionally escaping the hunter, there is virtually no chance that the vast majority of our game animals will “get the upper hand” in the event. If we must delude ourselves to justify anything we’re doing, we should seriously reconsider doing it.

quote:

Originally posted by powermad:
No modern firearms when archery or BP hunting in Oregon.

Can you carry a concealed pistol? I always carry a sidearm when hunting....there again I hunt in Texas.

While I certainly feel for the guy I think he was unprepared to deal with a large game encounter. A pissed off elk (even a good sized whitetail buck) is not something I would want to encounter with just my dick in my hands.

When hunting hogs I normally have a 12ga with black magics loaded in the truck for tracking a wounded hog...at the very least a 44 mag loaded with 300gr hard cast on my hip.

We stalk hunt at night and the puck factor kicks in when you hear a grunt behind you

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
I believe Pipe Smoker's comment has to do with the fact that the 'hunter' should have been prepared to track the wounded elk and finish the kill the previous day (AND done so!) in order to ensure that the 'enraged elk' did not suffer overnight!

Actually, no. When archery hunting, often the best thing to do to ensure recovery is to back out and give the animal time to die rather than chasing it and making it run even more.

Lots of second guessing in the thread. Bad hits just happen sometimes. Animal takes a step, a limb you couldn't see, or you just yank one. It's one of the reasons I don't archery hunt anymore after briefly giving it a go. A LOT of animals wounded and never recovered with a bow... orders of magnitude more than with a rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

quote:

Originally posted by LBTRS:
It wouldn't be the sport of hunting if the animal didn't sometimes get the upper hand.

I am not opposed to ethical hunting, and American hunters can be proud of the fact that it has generally become more ethical even in my lifetime. But other than occasionally escaping the hunter, there is virtually no chance that the vast majority of our game animals will “get the upper hand” in the event. If we must delude ourselves to justify anything we’re doing, we should seriously reconsider doing it.

Sounds like you have never hunted? Anyone that has hunted knows that the animals have the "upper hand" more times than not. Most hunts are unsuccessful. The game can smell better, see better, hear better, run faster, know the woods better, etc. than any human. Some even have bigger teeth and claws (or antlers in this case).

I don't know any ethical hunter that would hunt if the animal didn't have the upper hand or a fighting chance. If that was the case we could just put them in cages and pay someone to allow us to shoot them.

I only hunt because the animals have the upper hand. I would not hunt if it only involved driving up to a pasture, picking out the animal (like cattle) and shooting one.

I think you're a bit naive in your view of this.

quote:

Originally posted by LBTRS:
I only hunt because the animals have the upper hand.

So we went from discussing an animal’s being able to kill or harm the hunter which was what this thread started out as, to its being able to see or smell us and scamper away before we can get a shot. Please forgive me for believing we were still discussing the former. But yes, I agree it’s not like shooting an animal that’s confined in a pen, so you got me there.

And yes, I have hunted and killed animals; quite a few, actually.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

quote:

Originally posted by LBTRS:
I only hunt because the animals have the upper hand.

So we went from discussing an animal’s being able to kill or harm the hunter which was what this thread started out as, to its being able to see or smell us and scamper away before we can get a shot. Please forgive me for believing we were still discussing the former. But yes, I agree it’s not like shooting an animal that’s confined in a pen, so you got me there.

And yes, I have hunted and killed animals; quite a few, actually.

So you assumed that I was saying that Quail hunting wouldn't be hunting if the Quail didn't sometimes kill the hunter?

We are in agreement that often times the game gets the upper hand. A game animal that is able to kill a human is just one way they may get the upper hand is all I'm saying.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: LBTRS,