I have a S&G dial on my safe and today it missed the last number..where you’ve already hit the three and then go back past 0 to around 95 and it picks up a latch to open the safe.

It did this last week and I thought it was just me zoning out, and I redialed it. And it worked.

Should I be doing something different?

I don’t spin the dial fast to clear it, but I have seen my wife spin it fast a few times to clear it. Now she musta asks me to open it.

I don’t remember any kind of PMS besides changing the combos every six months or when someone rotates out. I do remember annually wiping all the disks down with dry cleaning solvent.

I know how they work, I’ve been inside them when I was in the CG and we had to reset combos. So I’ve taken the back off of the dial box and seen the disks etc & how they work.

I believe we have a safe expert member here, but the guidance I always followed when locking was to turn the dial completely around three or four times to clear what had been dialed before.

There should be no reason to spin the dial fast, though. Everything gets reset regardless of how fast it’s turned, and I always thought that spinning it fast might increase wear (though I admit, I don’t know why that would be).

As I’m sure you know, an S&G lock doesn’t have to be misdialed by much to not open. Every now and then I go past a number, or sometimes even forget how many times I’ve turned the dial when I’m not paying attention.

Added: In rereading your post, now I’m wondering if you have a lock whose combination is changed by a key or manually. Way back, the manual change locks were used on field safes, but later all the safes I saw that were approved for classified material had key change locks and there was no reason to open them up. I remember guidance from our authority that locks should be given some PM by a qualified locksmith, so perhaps something can go awry with them. I never encountered that in my active duty days or with the S&G safe locks I have now, but perhaps the lube can stiffen up and hinder free and proper movement of the disks—?

Added deux: It’s been a very long time since I’ve thought about most of this, but as it comes back to me, if your lock operates as you described and the bolt is withdrawn to permit opening by dialing between 0 and 95, it would have to be a key change model. Those locks are not normally opened by the user. Most of that type that I encountered had nylon disks, and I suppose something could break or become badly worn. I would, however, think that would be a go/no-go situation and not something that fails to work only sometimes.

S&G locks, not S&W.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sigfreund,

I’m out at karate now when I get back I’ll see if I can get a model #

This is a very old Sargent & Greenleaf (S&G) lock, but it shows the keyway. If it has that hole, it is a key change lock that requires a special tool to change the combination.

It’s a S&G6700 per the owners manual.

I’m sure it takes some kind of key, but I’m not looking to change the combo, I’m worried about the last turn missing the latch that pulls the bar to open the lock

And Sigfreud I remember the plastic dials inside that you just popped out to middle toothed section and moved the pointer to the new combo # and re-inserted the dial to begin your new combo.

99.99% chance you're experiencing number drift. It's part of the breaking in process of the lock and tends to take forever in gun safes due to the lack of use you typically see in commercial environments. Third number is usually the culprit.

To diagnose this simply dial your last number one number higher or lower than your combination and see if one of those works reliably. I suspect you'll find that to be the case. If so you can continue to use the lock as it with an altered last number or reset the combination to account for the movement.

If doing that does not result in a reliable opening, it's possible you have another issue preventing the lever from operating properly (broken spring, lubrication issue, other wear issue) and would have a pro out to look at it. I regularly get calls from people who say, "For the last 2 months it's been doing XYZ, and all of a sudden it stopped working". It didn't all of a sudden stop, it gave you 2 months' worth of warning that were ignored. It's a lot less expensive to deal with these issues when the door opens than when it doesn't.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:
And Sigfreud I remember the plastic dials inside that you just popped out to middle toothed section and moved the pointer to the new combo # and re-inserted the dial to begin your new combo.

Yes, those locks were what I refer to as the “manual change” variety. My only extensive experience with that type was in Vietnam, and they were used in “field” safes. As I recall, those common field safes that most orderly rooms had could be used for storage up to Confidential classification, but they would often be used for storing small sums of cash, the CO’s 1911, or other small sensitive items.

I don’t know how that type of safe and/or lock was used by other services, but it was probably secure enough for more sensitive items on board a ship that was manned all the time.

I don’t even recall if the manual change locks were made by S&G, but they could have been, I suppose. Those safes also existed in different versions. The older ones were easy to open using a hand drill and punch when, as frequently occurred, the combination was lost. Later a piece of “hard plate” was included to protect against such an easy way of bypassing the lock. A hand drill no longer worked.

At one time the key change S&G locks had brass combination disks, but that was changed after an incident in which a US soldier who was spying for the Soviet Union was given a device that evidently X-rayed a lock and the combination was recovered that way to allow him to gain access. The model number of S&G locks with the nylon disks added an “R” to indicate they were radiation proof. That designation puzzled me for a long time until I read about the spy incident.

And thanks for your input, a1abdj. Good to know.

I have the same issue, I find pushing the dial inward (applying light pressure) while turing seems to help.

a1abdj
I appreciate the feedback. The safe is 5 years old. I’ve never had it serviced. I’ll call a locksmith and have him look at it. I don’t like the current combo as some of the numbers are near zero and we were always told not to use numbers below 10 or above 90..(that could no longer apply)

Last number shouldn't be between 0 and 20 which allows for plenty of leeway. The last number within that forbidden zone can cause mechanical complications with the lock's function. The first two numbers can be anything without issue.