quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:

quote:

AB does everything possible to push craft beers off the shelf and taps.

Could be, but they actually bought a local craft brewer here called Karbach Brewery.
They are stronger than ever at least here locally they are.
Also one of my favorites and not just their IPA variety.

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Originally posted by TXJIM:
The beer snob crap can't run it's course fast enough.

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Originally posted by Rev. A. J. Forsyth:
My thoughts exactly. I don't understand the hatred and shade that gets thrown at classic American brew.

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Originally posted by PASig:
IPA's are much easier, faster and forgiving to make which is why you see every Tom, Dick and Harry craft beer brewery making them.

Lagers are actually much harder to get right, take longer to produce and there is not much room for error and unlike IPA's you can't just throw a shitload of hops into a batch that didn't come out right to hide mistakes.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
...
I also prefer to drink good whiskey, as opposed to "well whiskey." Does that make me a "whiskey snob?" On the rare occasions I drink wine, I prefer to drink decent wine, as opposed to most wines out of a box. Does that make me a "wine snob?"

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

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Originally posted by corsair:
The Budweiser from the Czech Republic tastes better than the American version.

Maybe cuz it's real beer?

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Originally posted by ensigmatic:

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Originally posted by TXJIM:
The beer snob crap can't run it's course fast enough.

Hope you're prepared to wait a long time

New craft breweries are opening, across the nation, all the time. We've had at least three open nearby, w/in the last 2-3 years, and there's another being built. Meanwhile the bigger craft breweries are selling all the beer they can brew.

I get a kick out of the "beer snob" thing. It's like enjoying non-watered-down coffee brewed from stale ground coffee makes one a "coffee snob" or driving a car that doesn't steer like a boat makes one a "car snob."

quote:

Originally posted by Rev. A. J. Forsyth:
My thoughts exactly. I don't understand the hatred and shade that gets thrown at classic American brew.

Hatred? I don't "hate" Bud and similar beers. I simply don't care to drink them when there's better beer available. They don't really taste all that good, but people usually can't tell because they drink them so cold their taste buds are rendered numb, anyway

The beers I prefer to drink usually taste best at ±50°F, which is where I keep my "beer fridge." Before the beer fridge they just sat on the basement floor, and, if I forgot to restock the fridge I just drank 'em at whatever temperature that was. (Probably somewhere around 60-65°F.) They still tasted good. Ever drink a "classic American brew" at 60-65°F? They're horrible at those temperatures.

This is why most "classic American brew" drinkers don't understand people enjoying "warm" beer. "Classic American brews" taste horrible at anything above about 40°F.

I also prefer to drink good whiskey, as opposed to "well whiskey." Does that make me a "whiskey snob?" On the rare occasions I drink wine, I prefer to drink decent wine, as opposed to most wines out of a box. Does that make me a "wine snob?"

quote:

It's not limited to beer btw.
Some people have a real penchant for over thinking, over analyzing and over doing just about anything enjoyable then branding everyone else unsophisticated.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
IPA's are much easier, faster and forgiving to make which is why you see every Tom, Dick and Harry craft beer brewery making them.

Lagers are actually much harder to get right, take longer to produce and there is not much room for error and unlike IPA's you can't just throw a shitload of hops into a batch that didn't come out right to hide mistakes.

So where did you get that fine tidbit of information?

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Originally posted by PASig:

What I said is 100% accurate.

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Originally posted by smschulz:

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Originally posted by PASig:

What I said is 100% accurate.

I disagree.

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Why there’s a lack of love for (craft) lagers
By Aubrey Laurence
Tap Trail

Craft breweries mostly produce ales, and ales are overwhelmingly preferred by craft beer drinkers. The reasons for this are not entirely known and they’re often debated, but I’ll give you my take on why I believe lagers are in the minority, in addition to being underappreciated and underrated.

Most beer lovers gravitate to craft beer because it offers more flavor, intensity and diversity over the ubiquitous, bland and vapid pale lagers that dominate the market. Oftentimes, this comes with a general rejection and prejudice toward all lagers, even though there’s a huge difference between adjunct-filled and bastardized “pilsners” and all-malt craft lagers that contain actual flavor.

Myths and stereotypes also have contributed to this anti-lager sentiment. All lagers are not light in color and flavor. All lagers are not low in alcohol. And all lagers are not restrained by strict guidelines and old-world traditions – at least in America. Oh, and can we stop perpetuating the myth that bocks are made from barrel dregs or the gunk leftover in tanks?

Of course, many craft beer enthusiasts revisit lagers eventually, but that’s when they may discover that it’s difficult to find tasty and well-made versions. Most imports are of the international pale lager variety, and the few tastier options are sometimes heat damaged, expired and stale or lightstruck and skunked. Wholesalers and retailers treat imports better these days, but some bad apples still tarnish lager’s reputation. (Some “imports,” it should be noted, are actually brewed in North America.)

American-made craft lagers, on the other hand, may be increasing in popularity, but they still only represent a small percentage of the overall craft beer market. Not to mention, a good number of them are less than stellar (though it’s improving).

In my opinion, there’s a twofold reason why so few American craft breweries make lagers.

1. It doesn’t make financial sense. Lagers take much longer to make than ales, and that reduction in capacity results in less product and less profit. Through economies of scale, this isn’t a problem for large breweries, but it is a major business concern for smaller breweries. More than one pro brewer has told me that they can make three batches of IPA in the time that it would take to make one batch of pilsner, and those three batches of IPA would probably sell quicker than the one batch of pilsner.

2. Lagers are much more challenging to make than ales. First and foremost, any flaws will be much more noticeable, due to the cleaner and more delicate nature of lagers. Ales, on the other hand, can better obscure off-flavors, poor attenuation, infections and other flaws with bold doses of hops, highly roasted malts, yeast esters, etc.

Techniques and controls also come into play more with lagers.

“Making lager beer is not simply a matter of recipe and yeast usage,” says Will Kemper, co-owner of Chuckanut Brewery & Kitchen. “That would be like saying football is a matter of throwing a ball back and forth. Making lager beer is a matter of the process.”

Beyond the specific yeast strains, hops and malts commonly used in lagers, one of the main differences that separate an ale from a lager is the fermentation temperature (ales ferment warmer than lagers). Therefore, lager breweries need to have better-engineered and more-precise equipment. “Attaining sufficient and consistent attenuation can be most difficult for brewers not familiar with certain aspects,” Kemper explains. “Likewise, cold conditioning or lagering between 30F and 31F can be outside the capabilities of brewers that are set up mainly to brew ales.”

Kemper also stresses the importance of clarity. “Lager beers intended for the marketplace and competitions need to be brilliant. Yes, there are a few exceptions to the rule (such as Chuckanut’s unfiltered Landbier), but those are rare. Cold processing assists in this, but if a brewer has difficulty in producing brilliant beer, then attempting to produce high-quality lager beer is doubtful.”

Kemper developed his technical and engineering concepts over decades of brewing around the world, beginning with Thomas Kemper. Since opening Chuckanut Brewery & Kitchen with his wife Mari in 2008, the brewery has received countless awards and accolades. It is now building a second facility in Skagit County.

quote:

You can disagree but that doesn't change the fact that ales are in fact easier and faster to produce and lagers are just the opposite:

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Originally posted by PASig:

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:

What I said is 100% accurate.

I disagree.

You can disagree but that doesn't change the fact that ales are in fact easier and faster to produce and lagers are just the opposite:

quote:

Why there’s a lack of love for (craft) lagers
By Aubrey Laurence
Tap Trail

Craft breweries mostly produce ales, and ales are overwhelmingly preferred by craft beer drinkers. The reasons for this are not entirely known and they’re often debated, but I’ll give you my take on why I believe lagers are in the minority, in addition to being underappreciated and underrated.

Most beer lovers gravitate to craft beer because it offers more flavor, intensity and diversity over the ubiquitous, bland and vapid pale lagers that dominate the market. Oftentimes, this comes with a general rejection and prejudice toward all lagers, even though there’s a huge difference between adjunct-filled and bastardized “pilsners” and all-malt craft lagers that contain actual flavor.

Myths and stereotypes also have contributed to this anti-lager sentiment. All lagers are not light in color and flavor. All lagers are not low in alcohol. And all lagers are not restrained by strict guidelines and old-world traditions – at least in America. Oh, and can we stop perpetuating the myth that bocks are made from barrel dregs or the gunk leftover in tanks?

Of course, many craft beer enthusiasts revisit lagers eventually, but that’s when they may discover that it’s difficult to find tasty and well-made versions. Most imports are of the international pale lager variety, and the few tastier options are sometimes heat damaged, expired and stale or lightstruck and skunked. Wholesalers and retailers treat imports better these days, but some bad apples still tarnish lager’s reputation. (Some “imports,” it should be noted, are actually brewed in North America.)

American-made craft lagers, on the other hand, may be increasing in popularity, but they still only represent a small percentage of the overall craft beer market. Not to mention, a good number of them are less than stellar (though it’s improving).

In my opinion, there’s a twofold reason why so few American craft breweries make lagers.

1. It doesn’t make financial sense. Lagers take much longer to make than ales, and that reduction in capacity results in less product and less profit. Through economies of scale, this isn’t a problem for large breweries, but it is a major business concern for smaller breweries. More than one pro brewer has told me that they can make three batches of IPA in the time that it would take to make one batch of pilsner, and those three batches of IPA would probably sell quicker than the one batch of pilsner.

2. Lagers are much more challenging to make than ales. First and foremost, any flaws will be much more noticeable, due to the cleaner and more delicate nature of lagers. Ales, on the other hand, can better obscure off-flavors, poor attenuation, infections and other flaws with bold doses of hops, highly roasted malts, yeast esters, etc.

Techniques and controls also come into play more with lagers.

“Making lager beer is not simply a matter of recipe and yeast usage,” says Will Kemper, co-owner of Chuckanut Brewery & Kitchen. “That would be like saying football is a matter of throwing a ball back and forth. Making lager beer is a matter of the process.”

Beyond the specific yeast strains, hops and malts commonly used in lagers, one of the main differences that separate an ale from a lager is the fermentation temperature (ales ferment warmer than lagers). Therefore, lager breweries need to have better-engineered and more-precise equipment. “Attaining sufficient and consistent attenuation can be most difficult for brewers not familiar with certain aspects,” Kemper explains. “Likewise, cold conditioning or lagering between 30F and 31F can be outside the capabilities of brewers that are set up mainly to brew ales.”

Kemper also stresses the importance of clarity. “Lager beers intended for the marketplace and competitions need to be brilliant. Yes, there are a few exceptions to the rule (such as Chuckanut’s unfiltered Landbier), but those are rare. Cold processing assists in this, but if a brewer has difficulty in producing brilliant beer, then attempting to produce high-quality lager beer is doubtful.”

Kemper developed his technical and engineering concepts over decades of brewing around the world, beginning with Thomas Kemper. Since opening Chuckanut Brewery & Kitchen with his wife Mari in 2008, the brewery has received countless awards and accolades. It is now building a second facility in Skagit County.

Why there’s a lack of love for (craft) lagers

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:
Beer snob = Being a prentious asshole about it while shitting all over people who don't want to make a full blown hobby out of having a cold one on a hot day.

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:
It's not limited to beer btw. Some people have a real penchant for over thinking, over analysing and over doing just about anything enjoyable then branding everyone else unsophisticated.

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:
The Budweiser from the Czech Republic tastes better than the American version.

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Originally posted by vic40204:

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:
The Budweiser from the Czech Republic tastes better than the American version.

I think they consume more beer than anywhere else in the world.