Dems in High-tax States trying to get around new Tax Law

January 02, 2018, 06:09 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Scoutmaster:
quote:
Originally posted by SigMaverick:...

I think the same way about married taxpayers.

Or those with kids

Or college costs to take credits on

Or teachers freebee deductions

Or preferential tax rates for dividends or capital gains

Or those who defer taxes by saving for retirement

Anyone who takes one of the above entitlements is full on FSA

And I am sure you voluntarily pay extra taxes every year just to make sure you don't get any freebies.

In rough numbers the top 50% of the income earners pay 98% of the fed income taxes, so if your income is less than ~$59K per year, you are being subsidized.

And I might mention that dividends get a tax break because dividends are paid out of after-tax money. Corporations have already paid 1/3 of their income in taxes before they pay the dividend, for which they get no tax deduction. Thus dividends are taxed twice.

I'm not the one stating I am subsidizing those who deducted their Property, State and Local taxes on a Sch A.

This nonsense that someone who claims the standard deduction is subsidizing those who itemize based on taxes paid is absurd. Out and out simple-headed goofiness.

If you think living in Tennessee (or anywhere else where your total nonfederal tax paid is low enough) and think you are "subsidizing" those who pay more, but you take even a single red cent of my above list, you are FSA of the worst kind.

January 02, 2018, 07:34 PM

V-Tail

quote:
Originally posted by SigMaverick:
yone who takes one of the above entitlements is full on FSA

January 02, 2018, 07:38 PM

Mboroman

quote:
Originally posted by V-Tail:
quote:
Originally posted by SigMaverick:
yone who takes one of the above entitlements is full on FSA

FSA = Free Shit Army (according to Urban Dictionary)

January 02, 2018, 07:42 PM

Balzé Halzé

quote:
Originally posted by SigMaverick:
...but you take even a single red cent of my above list, you are FSA of the worst kind.

Yeah sure, dude. Whatever.

January 02, 2018, 07:45 PM

sigmonkey

My taxes are easy to do.

1. Total earnings for 2017. $_______
2. Total amount withheld for 2017. -$_______
3. Total amount paid to ex-wife for 2017. -$_______
4. Amount remaining for 2017. $_______

Please remit the amount in line four, payable to the IRS.

So easy, a monkey can do it.

January 02, 2018, 07:45 PM

Scoutmaster

quote:
Originally posted by SigMaverick:...If you think living in Tennessee (or anywhere else where your total nonfederal tax paid is low enough) and think you are "subsidizing" those who pay more, but you take even a single red cent of my above list, you are FSA of the worst kind.

So a company makes $100K in pretax profit, pays $40K total in income taxes, leaving $60K in after tax income. They then pay that $60K in dividends to the owners of the company, which dividends get taxed at 15%, making an overall tax rate of 55%. And those people are FSA's of the worst kind???

January 02, 2018, 07:47 PM

SigMaverick

quote:
Originally posted by sigmonkey:
My taxes are easy to do.

1. Total earnings for 2017. $_______
2. Total amount withheld for 2017. -$_______
3. Total amount paid to ex-wife for 2017. -$_______
4. Amount remaining for 2017. $_______

Please remit the amount in line four, payable to the IRS.

So easy, a monkey can do it.

It's going to be even easier if you make the ex post 2018.

No more deduction for alimony

January 02, 2018, 07:48 PM

SigMaverick

quote:
Originally posted by V-Tail:
quote:
Originally posted by SigMaverick:
yone who takes one of the above entitlements is full on FSA

quote what I said, or just make goofy sad faces all by themselves.

January 02, 2018, 07:49 PM

SigMaverick

quote:
Originally posted by Scoutmaster:
quote:
Originally posted by SigMaverick:...If you think living in Tennessee (or anywhere else where your total nonfederal tax paid is low enough) and think you are "subsidizing" those who pay more, but you take even a single red cent of my above list, you are FSA of the worst kind.

So a company makes $100K in pretax profit, pays $40K total in income taxes, leaving $60K in after tax income. They then pay that $60K in dividends to the owners of the company, which dividends get taxed at 15%, making an overall tax rate of 55%. And those people are FSA's of the worst kind???

Didn't say anything of the sort.

At least you quoted me completely.

January 02, 2018, 08:03 PM

slosig

quote:
Originally posted by LoungeChair:
quote:
Originally posted by jigray3:
I never understood why low tax/fiscally responsible sates should subsidize high tax/irresponsible ones. You want freebies, pay for it yourselves.

What are you talking about?
Generally speaking, the high tax states subsidize the low tax states. Take a look at the chart. If your state is below the red line, then you live in a “welfare” state... accepting more from the federal government than you put in.

I think you are talking Apples and Coconuts. When jlgray3 and others talk about high tax states, they are referring to states that have high state income taxes. The graph you posted shows the average per capita Federal income tax paid. Looking at that, the average CA tax payer paid more in Federal taxes than the nationwide average (and that is before the limitation on deductions for state and local taxes and the limitation for mortgage interest kicks in). However, before one can say that CA (a high tax state by either definition) subsidies other states, you’d have to look at a chart similar to the one you posted that talks about how much money the Federal government sends to the various states.

Really, the most direct comparison would be raw numbers. How much money did each state send to the Federal government (through state payments, residents’ income taxes, etc) and how much money did each state receive from the Federal government (through grants, etc to the state, payments to individual residents, etc). It you are going to include social security and Medicare payments, include those taxes too. It would be a lot of accounting...

January 02, 2018, 08:08 PM

Scoutmaster

quote:
Originally posted by SigMaverick:
quote:
Originally posted by Scoutmaster:
quote:
Originally posted by SigMaverick:...If you think living in Tennessee (or anywhere else where your total nonfederal tax paid is low enough) and think you are "subsidizing" those who pay more, but you take even a single red cent of my above list, you are FSA of the worst kind.

So a company makes $100K in pretax profit, pays $40K total in income taxes, leaving $60K in after tax income. They then pay that $60K in dividends to the owners of the company, which dividends get taxed at 15%, making an overall tax rate of 55%. And those people are FSA's of the worst kind???

Didn't say anything of the sort.

At least you quoted me completely.

Actually your list of FSA included those who get a preferential tax rate on dividends, which is the exact scenario I noted above.

January 02, 2018, 09:14 PM

SigMaverick

I said if one cries that someone else shouldn't get a benefit in the tax code, but they take advantage of other perks in the code, they are FSA of the worst kind.

And to answer your round about question, qualified dividends didn't exist until 2004~ish. So yes, ever since 2004~ish those who pay tax on qualified dividends receive a "subsidy" in the same way those who deduct tax paid on a schedule A receive one.

January 02, 2018, 10:32 PM

jigray3

quote:
Originally posted by SigMaverick:
quote:
Originally posted by jigray3:
I never understood why low tax/fiscally responsible sates should subsidize high tax/irresponsible ones. You want freebies, pay for it yourselves.

I think the same way about married taxpayers.

Or those with kids

Or college costs to take credits on

Or teachers freebee deductions

Or preferential tax rates for dividends or capital gains

Or those who defer taxes by saving for retirement

Anyone who takes one of the above entitlements is full on FSA

You missed my point completely. Noticed I said "states", not individuals. States can get away with higher taxation when they know the federal tax code allows it as a deduction. Higher state taxes are effectively subsidized.

January 02, 2018, 11:23 PM

medic451

January 03, 2018, 05:59 PM

SigMaverick

quote:
Originally posted by jigray3:
quote:
Originally posted by SigMaverick:
quote:
Originally posted by jigray3:
I never understood why low tax/fiscally responsible sates should subsidize high tax/irresponsible ones. You want freebies, pay for it yourselves.

I think the same way about married taxpayers.

Or those with kids

Or college costs to take credits on

Or teachers freebee deductions

Or preferential tax rates for dividends or capital gains

Or those who defer taxes by saving for retirement

Anyone who takes one of the above entitlements is full on FSA

You missed my point completely. Noticed I said "states", not individuals. States can get away with higher taxation when they know the federal tax code allows it as a deduction. Higher state taxes are effectively subsidized.

more little bastards are made because the bastard makers know they will get paid more effectively subsidized by us assholes without kids.

Marrying and filing a joint tax return effectively subsidizes the married couple at the expense of us single filing assholes.

I got your point, do you get mine?

January 03, 2018, 06:37 PM

flashguy

Frankly, calling folks names because they take advantage of what is allowed by the tax laws is counterproductive. Virtually all of us are overtaxed and it makes no sense to avoid taking whatever reductions that are legal--to do so is foolish. I frankly would support going back to taxation as originally planned--a fixed fee for every land owner--but that is not going to happen. Assuming that every citizen living in the USA has the same legal opportunities, I'd also support a fixed fee for every citizen, but that isn't going to happen, either. Any scheme where the rich and poor pay the same cannot fly, because the tax just cannot be high enough to support what the government is expected to do (even if stripped of all the welfare stuff).

That being the case, I try to support Congress critters who will craft tax programs I can tolerate, and then will attempt to use any provisions that will reduce what I have to pay. And I don't feel bad about doing it.

flashguy

January 03, 2018, 06:40 PM

Otto Pilot

Don't worry y'all, Cuomo is comin' to the rescue.

quote:
New York Governor Andrew Cuomo said his administration plans to sue the federal government over the new Republican tax law, on the grounds that it’s unconstitutional because it discriminates against New York and other states that voted against President Donald Trump.

“Make no mistake, they’re robbing the blue states to give money to red states,” Cuomo said during his State of the State speech in Albany Wednesday. “It is an economic civil war. It is illegal and we will challenge it in court as unconstitutional.”

Cuomo, who described the Trump presidency as “the most hostile federal administration in history,” said the changes to state and local tax deductions in the bill will raise New Yorkers’ property and income taxes by at least 20 percent. The governor added that New York state already contributes $48 billion more annually to the federal government than it gets back.

Critics of the state and local tax deduction have said the break effectively lets the federal government subsidize high-tax states. The bill signed by Trump on Dec. 22 sets a new $10,000 limit on state and local tax deductions for federal income taxes starting on Jan. 1.

The impact of the tax law “is a question of New York’s economic viability long term, a question of New York’s competitiveness long term,” Cuomo said. “The threat from this federal government is not going to derail the great state of New York, I promise you.”

In addition to challenging the law as unconstitutional, Cuomo said he plans to start a campaign to repeal and replace the new tax law. And, he said he’s considering workarounds to respond to the changes, including restructuring New York’s current income and payroll tax system, and creating new opportunities for making charitable contributions to support public programs.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news...ok&utm_medium=social

January 04, 2018, 11:42 AM

jigray3

quote:
Originally posted by SigMaverick:
quote:
Originally posted by jigray3:
quote:
Originally posted by SigMaverick:
quote:
Originally posted by jigray3:
I never understood why low tax/fiscally responsible sates should subsidize high tax/irresponsible ones. You want freebies, pay for it yourselves.

I think the same way about married taxpayers.

Or those with kids

Or college costs to take credits on

Or teachers freebee deductions

Or preferential tax rates for dividends or capital gains

Or those who defer taxes by saving for retirement

Anyone who takes one of the above entitlements is full on FSA

You missed my point completely. Noticed I said "states", not individuals. States can get away with higher taxation when they know the federal tax code allows it as a deduction. Higher state taxes are effectively subsidized.

more little bastards are made because the bastard makers know they will get paid more effectively subsidized by us assholes without kids.

Marrying and filing a joint tax return effectively subsidizes the married couple at the expense of us single filing assholes.

I got your point, do you get mine?

You are conflating inducements offered to individuals across all states with behavior of the states as a result of inducements. They are not the same.

January 04, 2018, 12:07 PM

Skins2881

quote:
Originally posted by pessimist:
quote:
Originally posted by cas

People are fleeing NY en masse

Really? That's news to me.

I have four acquaintances (separate households) in Westchester and Dutchess counties that pay over $90K per year in property tax.

New York had or still has a "view" tax. If your property has a view, that was an add on to your property tax and it was a considerable amount. Completely subjective and abused.

That's nuts, that is more than I make a year.

January 04, 2018, 12:59 PM

229DAK

quote:
Originally posted by Otto Pilot:
Don't worry y'all, Cuomo is comin' to the rescue.

quote:
New York Governor Andrew Cuomo said his administration plans to sue the federal government over the new Republican tax law, on the grounds that it’s unconstitutional because it discriminates against New York and other states that voted against President Donald Trump.

“Make no mistake, they’re robbing the blue states to give money to red states,” Cuomo said during his State of the State speech in Albany Wednesday. “It is an economic civil war. It is illegal and we will challenge it in court as unconstitutional.”

Cuomo, who described the Trump presidency as “the most hostile federal administration in history,” said the changes to state and local tax deductions in the bill will raise New Yorkers’ property and income taxes by at least 20 percent. The governor added that New York state already contributes $48 billion more annually to the federal government than it gets back.

Critics of the state and local tax deduction have said the break effectively lets the federal government subsidize high-tax states. The bill signed by Trump on Dec. 22 sets a new $10,000 limit on state and local tax deductions for federal income taxes starting on Jan. 1.

The impact of the tax law “is a question of New York’s economic viability long term, a question of New York’s competitiveness long term,” Cuomo said. “The threat from this federal government is not going to derail the great state of New York, I promise you.”

In addition to challenging the law as unconstitutional, Cuomo said he plans to start a campaign to repeal and replace the new tax law. And, he said he’s considering workarounds to respond to the changes, including restructuring New York’s current income and payroll tax system, and creating new opportunities for making charitable contributions to support public programs.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news...ok&utm_medium=social

Get the popcorn!