Microwaves have always been shady.

quote:

Originally posted by joel9507:
Water at 212F is water at 212F. It doesn't know what added the heat.

I think what you may be seeing is that maybe the visual cues of boiling in a microwave make it appear that the water is all at the boiling point when it's not. I think if you 'nuked the crap out of it' then it'd be more likely to taste the same as the water from a kettle.

Detailed, seat of the pants rationale below:
**********hypothesis start
Boiling is a bunch of things all wrapped into one. (I loved my heat/mass transfer course in Mech E. )

The act of boiling mixes the living shit (technical term here) out of the water. The bubbles rising, the hottest water rising and the cooler water at the top (cooled by the evaporation there) falling - so lots of convection happening in the water by this motion as the boiling starts.

After this has happened for long enough (technical term) the temperature gets pretty uniform - it's then all at the boiling point and the added heat just converts water to steam, instead of heating the water.

In a kettle, it takes longer to boil because the convection forces all the water to be at the boiling point before any boiling happens (first approximation - ignoring the small-scale boiling at the bottom when things first get started.)

I think the hot spots in the microwave may be making some of the water flash boil when the rest isn't at the boiling point. So you get the visual cue 'it's boiling' but some of the water's not actually at the boiling point.
**********hypothesis end

Seems reasonable. This also would explain why items don't seem to stay as hot from the microwave. They aren't heated evenly to a uniform temperature.

Thank you for your posts, emails, messages, letters, and gift baskets. We're leaning to multiple factors. This morning I used some of my dwindling & precious butane to kettle-boil. Systems normal, Code Green, AAA couch time. The water took its time within the extraction process. So the cold water theory would have been reasonable. Lack of extraction. But the missing oxygen, yeah. We like science shit. I had been leaning towards broken molecules. Maybe microwave ovens turn water onto ozone. I might get NASA involved for the big picture.

quote:

reintroduce into the water some of the oxygen which was lost during boiling.

quote:

you get the visual cue 'it's boiling' but some of the water's not actually at the boiling point.

Also consider that you could be tasting the kettle as opposed to the microwave vessel you are heating in.

Most people (correctly) do not wash a hot water kettle. Over time the kettle will develop some small deposits that may create a "taste".

Just a thought.

So I may be a little late to the coffee party.

When I roasted coffee, and also trained many baristas, as well as cupped what seems like thousands of bean samples, and countless espresso shots, there were two factors I would stress to people... (then I started talking and it’s a lot more than two)

Water Temperature and Grind.

Those two factors will make or break your coffee. The size of the grind will obviously affect the flavor. In an espresso machine, it’s much more though. You have to change the grind throughout the day as the ambient temp and humidity change. Now in a pour over drop coffee, grind won’t be as critical as an espresso machine.

Too fine of a grind can cause over extraction and leave you with a less than ideal cup of coffee. For drip coffee, you will get a much tastier cup if you use more coffee at a coarser grind, than a lesser amount at a finer grind. The standard “drip” grind, is actually pretty good. On the note of grinding, using a grinder with sharp burrs will completely change the flavor profile. Dull burrs, or the tabletop blender style grinders don’t cut the beans as much as they just pulverize them, this gives uneven surface areas, and all different sizes of grounds in your grind.

Water temperature. 195*-202*F. If you’re pouring 212 degree water on your coffee grounds, you are severely over extracting the coffee. You’re getting all the tannins and plant materials. This makes for a thinner feeling, bitter cup of coffee. When brewing coffee, you want to extract the oils and sugars, but leave behind many of the tannins and all the plant matter.

Pre-infuse your grounds. When brewing, take an ounce or so of your water, and wet the grounds. Let them sit for 30 seconds and “bloom”. Aside of smelling amazing, this will allow the release of many of the desired components much easier. You’ll extract more flavor, and it just makes for a better cup. After the 30 seconds or so has passed, then pour your water over as you normally would.

Unless you drink your coffee black, add the cream and or sugar to the cup prior to brewing. This will give something for the acids of the coffee to bond to. This is especially true if you use cream. The acids in the coffee will bond to the fats in the cream. This will change the entire dynamic of the cup of coffee.

One other thing to note, is the roast. Taking an espresso (very dark roast) and making drip, you will lose some of the body of the coffee. The longer coffee is roasted, the less oils it has. These oils are what give coffee it’s amazing flavor. When making drip, a roast that is between first and second crack is ideal. At second crack and beyond, you have lost too much of the good stuff to extract under normal atmospheric pressure. That’s where the espresso machine comes in.

TLDR:
Use a sharp grinder
Use a coarser grind, and add more grounds to your liking
Find a light to medium roast and use more to achieve the same flavor profiles
Never use water hotter than 202*F
Pre-infuse the coffee and allow it to bloom
Brew onto cream of sugar if you use those.


I honestly could blather on about coffee preparation for hours, but I do have to get ready for work soon. I hope this helps.

^^^ Some good info there.

All I know is, somewhere in the atmosphere there is a mass of living shit.

Okay, since it hasn't beed said yet: The taste receptors that recognize a taste that is 'bitter' go numb when in contact with anything at a higher temperature than ~95 degrees.

Its not the water, it is you.