Quite a bit of chatter online about FLOCK cameras, some cities are refusing to allow them, there are reports of police officers quitting when city commissions won't approve them.

The selling point is that it helps police solve crimes.

The alternative point is that it invades peoples right to privacy, of course the neysayers state if you aren't doing something wrong, what's the problem.

Cameras are everywhere and FLOCK tracks peoples movements, records the plate, date, time, location so Flock is creating and selling your data to governments, insurance companies and whomever will write a big enough check to get the data.


In any event, here is a web page that shows all known FLOCK camera locations. You might be surprised to find where some of these are placed. Found 3 of them in the Lowes Parking lot near me, and they have 94,252 cameras identified and mapped.

Frankly surprised at the high number of them in Red states. You'd have to live in low population areas in Montana or Wyoming to have a chance of not being recorded in FLOCKS database.

The Atlanta area has well over 4,000 FLOCK cameras that have been reported to the web page DeFlock.org. You can't move in Atlanta anywhere without being recorded by FLOCK.

Big Brother is real.


https://deflock.org/

Not all Flock cameras are installed by LE or municipalities, they sold many to HOA’s. There are lawsuits over this.

There are other LPR camera systems out there besides Flock. LE agencies share their watch lists with other agencies across the country.

quote:

The alternative point is that it invades peoples right to privacy

You have no expectation of privacy in public.

That has been repeatedly upheld in various court cases.

Tracking databases, facial recognition networks, et al have potentially problematic ripple effects.

But it's not specifically a privacy issue, since you have none in public.


The town where I patrol is having Flock plate readers installed in a couple high traffic spots. But those are plate readers only. The benefits from a LE perspective sound good, but it will be a little while before I have any firsthand experience.

And at its core, it's not really all that different from me sitting in a patrol car and typing in every plate that passes me. Just less manpower intensive.

And to my earlier privacy point, you have even less expectation of privacy with your license plate (as if less than zero is a thing), since it's not even your property... It's the state's.

Many patrol vehicles have plate readers installed. Would save you from typing it in.

Oh I know. But my small agency doesn't have the budget for all the cool toys.

The Flock cameras are part of a regional/state police initiative, as we are one of the gateway cities for the region along the primary interstate corridor. So that's apparently being subsidized.

No such subsidies for individual plate readers.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
[QUOTE]
it's not really all that different from me sitting in a patrol car and typing in every plate that passes me.

Is this what your job initials?

Sometimes. It's part of proactive enforcement, running license plates to look for active warrants, stolen cars, lack of registration, fictitious plates, etc.

Traffic stops based on plate returns or minir infractions are also an excellent way to find wanted folks, drugs, illegal guns, crime afoot, etc.

Just the other day a tag return led to a vehicle pursuit with a PIT, then a foot pursuit, and then the apprehension of a couple methhead parole absconders with drugs and two nationwide prison return warrants.

Interesting. There aren't all that many in my area.
I expected a lot more.

Eventually, everything we humans do between birth and death will be recorded.

Tucson seems to be littered with them.

We have 43 of them.

Two of them are in the parking lots of Lowes and Publix.

Strange thing locally, our Navy Federal Credit Union has two entrances and both cameras are aimed at the parking lot/drive thru teller lines. This place is always busy in comparison to other financial institutions.

quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:
Two of them are in the parking lots of Lowes and Publix.

Several Lowes locations in MT seem to have them, which leads one to ask, "Why does Lowes need a license plate reader unless they are using/selling the data?" Perhaps it's time to stop patronizing Lowes.

Nashville does not have them because they are "racist" according to some. The ultra liberal mayor has refused to have any cameras installed even when the city council has approved license plate readers. Most of Nashville's suburban towns have them and complain that the readers are used to arrest Nashville's bad guys.

Who decides where to put them? Is there a public approval process? Or a gov agency that approved a permit or license? What’s the process to request removal?

I just looked at the map locally and it looks line every Lowes has a couple. And I looked at our local Home Depot, they have none. So I wonder if it's Lowes Corporate doing it for loss prevention?

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Who decides where to put them?

The property owner.

quote:

Is there a public approval process? Or a gov agency that approved a permit or license?

If it's public property (like city property) then the governing entity (like the city council) has to approve the purchase/contract just like any other government purchase/contract, which may or may not involve public input depending on the rules and regulations in that area.

If it's private property like a business, then no. Much like you don't have to have a permit/license to install a security camera system. (Not identical, but a similar concept.)

quote:

What’s the process to request removal?

It's up to the property/camera system owner. They're also the stewards of the data collected, and control who can access it and how long it is retained.

From Flock's website:

quote:

[P]lease note that ownership, title and interest in the customer data, belong to and are retained solely by our customers. Flock maintains a limited license to access the customer data for the sole purpose of providing our services. Flock does not own customer data

I see. So some public or private entity must request and pay for installation.

They are everywhere in Phoenix. We have a lot of property crime here. I can't help but think that property crime would plummet if we had a mandatory 5 yr minimum in Tent City for ANY theft.

I know I’ve posted this article before, but here it is again:


I drove 300 miles in rural Virginia, then asked police to send me their public surveillance footage of my car. Here’s what I learned.


(Cardinal News link)

These cameras are popping up all over the place around here.