Every year for the past 17 years my friends and I have gathered on Christmas Eve at our favorite cigar bar to enjoy a cigar and spend the afternoon together. The tradition has withstood the test of time through all of us getting married and having kids. If anyone is looking for a good annual tradition to start, I highly recommend this!

This year as we were talking we agreed that we all spend much more time shopping for and buying guns than we do training, and the idea of doing a guys trip and spending a few days training somewhere came up.

I'd love to hear any recommendations that this group has for pistol+rifle training. Ideally it's more than one day so that it's worth the trip. From the research I've done so far the only thing I've come up with is the MAG-40 class that Massad Ayoob is holding in April in San Antonio. I've heard great things about him as an instructor, but I'm also hoping to come up with some other options.

It will be a group of three or four guys. I'd put us all at the intermediate stage. We're all fairly physically fit (not afraid to be put through the wringer).

Thanks in advance for any recommendations that you have.

Gunsite in Prescott, AZ.

Sig Sauer Academy.

https://sigsaueracademy.com/

I live at the point where Ohio and Indiana meet under Michigan and have trained at a number of places or with trainers within a days drive of here.

First up would be TDI in southern Ohio. I've trained there multiple times. Lodging in Seaman, OH is about 25 minutes from the facility.

My next suggestion would be Pat Goodale at practical firearms Training. I've done a multi day class there and it's a great experience.

Greg Ellifritz of Active Response Training will be doing his system Collapse Medicine and Handgun 1 in August near Columbus, OH. I've trained with Greg on multiple occasions and he is an excellent guy to learn from.

That's a start for you. You will likely have a group of people with a mixture of skills and experience as well as physical condition. The places I've listed have reasonable training costs and are close enough to Detroit to not add extra travel time or expense. If you have questions feet free to email me

I will second gunsite in Paulden AZ.
The first ( nearly 50 years as a training facility) I live nearby, and almost all top level trainers these days have one thing in common - at one time or another they were instructors or otherwise associated with gunsite.

Yes it is expensive ( about 2 grand for a five day class, plus ammo and expenses) but worth every penny.

Also if you or any of the friends are vets of the GWOT, they offer one class a year to GWOT vets for free.

I and a group of guys and one gal did this for 5 years out at Front Sight in Nevada (the 4 day defensive handgun course each time) and I have no regrets. Since they changed... seems they killed my lifetime membership with the change over....

I'd also say Gunsite or the Sig Academy.... I absolutely believe in formal training yearly. In fact because I run my own business and usually carry a weapon with me, my standard operating procedure's of my business require this yearly training.... which means it is tax deductible.

And speaking of the 'gal' in our group... at the end of the course.... usually around 30-40 people in the class, there is a man on man competition where the winner in the pair move up to the next level.. the last time we were there, she and I ended up the last two.. she beat me.

quote:

Originally posted by Appliance Brad:
I live at the point where Ohio and Indiana meet under Michigan and have trained at a number of places or with trainers within a days drive of here.

<POST>

I HIGHLY recommend considering any training that Brad suggests.

Wolf Precision in Johnstown PA. long range shooting, 3 day class, it was great.

I have taken multiple pistol classes from Bruce Gray and JL Jones. They took me from a mediocre shooter to one that is fast and very accurate. As an example, one class was the Advanced Pistol Operator, and 90% of the students were LEOs from various departments.

At the end of the three days, we were tested with the Bill Drill, and I easily outshot everyone else. Note that I have about 5% of the experience that many of the LEOs had. One LEO, near me on the line thought he was really, really hot. He had a tricked out 1911 style gun, and had an attitude of "well, try another class, but I am so good it will probably not help much".

My time was .93 draw and first round, and 2.09 for six shots. There are many at the local range who are much faster than that, but for my first time I was satisfied. After a relative newbee outshot him by 1/3 of a second, he was shaken and could not even talk. I now feel so confident in my skills, that in event I had to use my pistol defensively, I have little fear of the outcome.

https://opspectraining.com/

When I shot my CCW practical test, I scored 497/500. It should have been a clean 500, but I was nervous and pulled three shots to the left for 9's rather than 10's or X's. The tester, who is an instructor was a little unnerved at the accuracy. After the test he examined my pistol for the second time to make sure it did not have a super light trigger, because my score was too good to be true.

Destination training trips can be great fun and build positive memories, doing it with a group of friends would only enhance that experience and reinforce friendships. Best to find an instructor that you're interested in learning from, and get everyone onboard.

Some of the best and unique training I've done is with former SOF members, mainly because many are utilizing methodologies that aren't so dogmatic which seems to be an issue with long-time LEO instructors. The flip-side, many former LEO instructors their backgrounds are in dealing with how things would play-out in the legal system given certain courses of action, I will reserve their classes locally.

Consider the following, most have a presence on social media as well:
Gamut Resolutions- Bob Keller is a former CAG member and his profile in the shooting world has taken off with his Gamut Challenge. I got more out of his carbine/pistol class than many others, perhaps because his insight and learnings are from contemporary conflicts.

Trident Concepts- Jeff Gonzales is a former SEAL and Gunsite instructor stretching back to Jeff Cooper. He's been in the firearm instruction game for quite awhile, has experience with a majority of the major brands & players in the marketplace and has managed to stay relevant because he's not hidebound or, dogmatic about instruction. I've taken multiple classes from Jeff and I can't say enough good things about his courses.

Modern Samurai Project- Scott Jedlinski comes from the competitive shooting side rather than the Mil/LEO route and he's mainly focused on pistol usage. His teaching and instruction of using optics on pistols drove a lot of the training programs for a number of high-level military and police units. Without all the baggage of military or police instructions, Scott's interaction was different and refreshing from the usual barking and high-stress interactions that sometime is found with other companies.

Baer Solutions- Collection of SOF veterans, these guys are younger than the average instructor which means they'll have newer perspectives that isn't bogged-down with former firearm dogma. I've personally not taken a class with them but, friends have and they've all raved about it, encouraging me to find a date on the calendar that'll work for me.

Prairie Fire- Formerly known as Front Sight before all the legal stuff came crashing down on the founder, located an hour-plus outside of Las Vegas, the property (500+ acres) and facilities is quite impressive. I've only done a bolt-gun rifle course with them when it was Front Sight and it laid-down the fundamentals for me; I believe most of the instructors are the same since they all live in the surrounding area. Challenging environment when I was there due to wind and dryness of the air but, the instructors are there to help you out, point you in the right direction and set you on a good course.

I agree that OpSpec is a worthwhile class as well, especially for those with limited training.

quote:

Originally posted by c1steve:
...snipped...

Are you referring to the course in Richmond back in 2015 (I think)?

Although it has been several years, I trained for decades at TDI Ohio.

They will make you a better shooter, no matter what level you are at.

East of Cincinnati, in Adams County.

I personally prefer the Fall classes because of weather.

They do shoot rain or shine, or snow, so bring the appropriate gear.

I will also recommend TDI. They do both handguns and rifles and the instructors are first rate.

+1 for Pat Goodale’s Practical Firearm Training and for OpSpec Training. Have attended each multiple times and they are excellent.

I have only trained with Bruce Gray/OpSpec Training until my recent CCW class. Well, I also did some revolver and tactical shotgun training with Randy Lee of Apex, but I don't think he's doing that anymore.
In any case, I highly recommend OpSpec Training; they sometimes train at Sig Academy, or other venues around the country.

^^^^

I'm a fan of OpSpec Training, having met Bruce once and Jerry twice at trainings they have offered.

I'd quickly sign up for their courses again, and look forward to their 2024 schedule.

Ayoob's MAG-40 is an excellent class. Half the day in the classroom going over use of force, the other half on the range. I took 16 pages of notes on a Word document in 4 days.

I just got back from Rifleman 1 at Valor Ridge in northeastern TN with Reid Henrichs. Most beautiful training location I've ever been to (Cumberland Mountains) with a pretty incredible facility. Class was top notch. I'm going back in 2024.

You guys are great. Thanks for all of the suggestions.

I've already started batting around some ideas with the other guys. Excited to see what comes together.

quote:

Originally posted by thumperfbc:
I agree that OpSpec is a worthwhile class as well, especially for those with limited training.

quote:

Originally posted by c1steve:
...snipped...

Are you referring to the course in Richmond back in 2015 (I think)?

I had a similar experience at the PF class in Modesto in 2011. For whatever reason, I just shot. Made me think of the concept of “No mind”, where you don’t think, you just do. I wish I could figure out how I got there then, as while I’ve become a much better shooter after more classes, mostly with OpSpec, I’ve never felt like I was in the “No mind” state again.
Have done MOAC and that was great, but the class I’d most like to do again is Applied Fundamentals. OpSpec is good people, and does a good job teaching in a non-dogmatic way.

quote:

Originally posted by thumperfbc:
I agree that OpSpec is a worthwhile class as well, especially for those with limited training.

quote:

Originally posted by c1steve:
...snipped...

Are you referring to the course in Richmond back in 2015 (I think)?

Not sure. It was a three day class, but I have taken about 10 classes from OpSpec Training so it is hard to pinpoint who was in each class. There were only about 16 students. It was Advanced Pistol Operator, so not the Practical Fundamentals class. One thing I noticed is that I was one of the smallest persons there, and I am 6' tall.

Thumperfly, you posted while ago about fish not being palatable. Store bought fish is usually way to old to taste good, so I never eat it either. However I take my own boat out for tuna and salmon, if you want to go sometime, let me know. Caught a 140 lb. bluefin tuna this year, and last year caught 400 lbs. of albacore in two days.