while taxiing to the ramp, he raised his gear instead of his flaps.
One of my pet peeves. I have a bit over 3,000 hours as PIC* in the Bonanza family, about 1,200 hours as instructor. I always make it clear to my client / trainees, that there is absolutely no valid reason to retract flaps while taxiing, and any attempt to reach for the flap switch while I am on board will not be tolerated.
The "standard" -- or at least the most common -- arrangement in most airplanes has the landing gear switch on the pilot side of the panel or center console, and the flap switch on the co-pilot side.
I am aware of at least three different arrangements and location for flap and landing gear controls in Bonanzas:
Early Bonanzas had a row of "piano key" switches on the far right of the panel; pilot had to reach way over to get to them, and at a quick glance they all looked similar. Yeah, it is possible to distinguish between the landing gear switch and the others by feel, but it is far too easy for a pilot who is careless or complacent, to pick the wrong switch.
Mid-year Bonanzas (and Travel-Airs, DebonAirs and Barons), manufactured after the piano key arrangement was discontinued, but prior to 1985, had more conventional type switches, but non-standard switch locations. The landing gear on these was on the co-pilot side, and the flap switch was on the pilot side.
More modern Bonanzas (and siblings), manufactured after 1985, have the conventional arrangement with pilot-side landing gear switch and flap switch on co-pilot side.
Because there are different arrangements of these controls in similar airplanes, it is all too easy to grab the wrong one, and retract the landing gear while intending to retract the wing flaps after landing. Yes, there is a "squat switch" -- this was on the right (co-pilot) side main landing gear strut on my V-Tail and all other Bonanzas that I recall. The purpose of this switch was to detect when there was weight on the landing gear, implying that the airplane was on the ground (not airborn), and preventing the gear from being retracted if the control switch was moved to the "gear up" position, but the squat switch did not always work. An A&P mechanic can tell us for sure, but as far as I know, the squat switch is not one of the items on the standard 100-hour inspection checklist.
I have been known to re-inforce my "don't touch it while taxiing" policy, by forcibly restraining a pilot who was reaching for the flap switch while the airplane was in motion. I absolutely insisted on touching this switch only when the airplane was at a complete stop and the pilot was focused on retracting the flaps after verifying that s/he was reaching for the flap switch and not the landing gear switch. Kind of like double-checking that the gun is unloaded without the distraction of doing something else at the same time. *Pilot In Command for the acronym hatersThis message has been edited. Last edited by: V-Tail,
הרחפת שלי מלאה בצלופחים
January 24, 2023, 01:41 PM
Perception
quote:
Originally posted by V-Tail:
quote:
Originally posted by wingspar:
while taxiing to the ramp, he raised his gear instead of his flaps.
One of my pet peeves. I have a bit over 3,000 hours as PIC* in the Bonanza family, about 1,200 hours as instructor. I always make it clear to my client / trainees, that there is absolutely no valid reason to retract flaps while taxiing, and any attempt to reach for the flap switch while I am on board will not be tolerated.
The "standard" -- or at least the most common -- arrangement in most airplanes has the landing gear switch on the pilot side of the panel or center console, and the flap switch on the co-pilot side.
I am aware of at least three different arrangements and location for flap and landing gear controls in Bonanzas:
Early Bonanzas had a row of "piano key" switches on the far right of the panel; pilot had to reach way over to get to them, and at a quick glance they all looked similar. Yeah, it is possible to distinguish between the landing gear switch and the others by feel, but it is far too easy for a pilot who is careless or complacent, to pick the wrong switch.
Mid-year Bonanzas (and Travel-Airs, DebonAirs and Barons), manufactured after the piano key arrangement was discontinued, but prior to 1985, had more conventional type switches, but non-standard switch locations. The landing gear on these was on the co-pilot side, and the flap switch was on the pilot side.
More modern Bonanzas (and siblings), manufactured after 1985, have the conventional arrangement with pilot-side landing gear switch and flap switch on co-pilot side.
Because there are different arrangements of these controls in similar airplanes, it is all too easy to grab the wrong one, and retract the landing gear while intending to retract the wing flaps after landing. Yes, there is a "squat switch" -- this was on the right (co-pilot) side main landing gear strut on my V-Tail and all other Bonanzas that I recall. The purpose of this switch was to detect when there was weight on the landing gear, implying that the airplane was on the ground (not airborn), and preventing the gear from being retracted if the control switch was moved to the "gear up" position, but the squat switch did not always work. An A&P mechanic can tell us for sure, but as far as I know, the squat switch is not one of the items on the standard 100-hour inspection checklist.
I have been known to re-inforce my "don't touch it while taxiing" policy, by forcibly restraining a pilot who was reaching for the flap switch while the airplane was in motion. I absolutely insisted on touching this switch only when the airplane was at a complete stop and the pilot was focused on retracting the flaps after verifying that s/he was reaching for the flap switch and not the landing gear switch. Kind of like double-checking that the gun is unloaded without the distraction of doing something else at the same time. Pilot In Command for the acronym haters
When I was flying we had an instructor drop a Cessna 172RG doing touch and gos. He landed, flipped up the gear instead of the flaps, and bounced enough to let the gear retract.
He wasn't an instructor after that mishap.
"The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people." "Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy." "I did," said Ford, "it is." "So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't the people get rid of the lizards?" "It honestly doesn't occur to them. They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates the government they want." "You mean they actually vote for the lizards." "Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course." "But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?" "Because if they didn't vote for a lizard, then the wrong lizard might get in."
January 24, 2023, 01:57 PM
08 Cayenne
At Wheeling WV Ohio County airport there was a company that we used for short trips. In the early 90's when you could park next to the runway and just walk up to the plane. Also many times I remember rental cars parked within walking distance of the plane at several airports. Anyway the guy took off and if I'm not mistaken he had a fuel line freeze up and had to land on I-70. I took a flight with him a couple weeks later and asked him if he got into any kind of trouble landing on interstate. He said no but he had some explaining to do when he turned around and took back off.
January 25, 2023, 01:51 AM
wingspar
quote:
Originally posted by V-Tail:
quote:
Originally posted by wingspar:
while taxiing to the ramp, he raised his gear instead of his flaps.
One of my pet peeves. I have a bit over 3,000 hours as PIC* in the Bonanza family, about 1,200 hours as instructor. I always make it clear to my client / trainees, that there is absolutely no valid reason to retract flaps while taxiing, and any attempt to reach for the flap switch while I am on board will not be tolerated.
Part of the reason I never owned a retractable gear aircraft was the expense, and that probably saved me thousands of dollars. Had a friend with a Comanche and one day when I walked over to his hangar, his landing gear was all over the hangar floor. It was for an inspection. He did most of the work himself with an IA sign off, but it still cost him $4k. When he passed away, I sort of thought about buying his aircraft cause I had a love affair with Comanches, but I couldn’t swallow the cost.
If Guns Cause Crime, Mine Are Defective.... Ted Nugent
May 25, 2023, 11:55 AM
Ronin1069
There is a restaurant near the St. Paul Airport where private planes fly in, park in front of the restaurant, eat and then head back up into the air again.
While there the other day this V-Tail came in. Beautiful plane; I spoke with the pilot a bit (he and a few buddies were on a golf trip) and he told me that it was a 1963 Model P.
___________________________ All it takes...is all you got. ____________________________ For those who have fought for it, Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
May 25, 2023, 02:12 PM
V-Tail
Lovely airplane. 1963 was the last year for the P-35, with the 470 ci, 260 hp engine. Several of my trainee clients had this model.
My V-Tail was a 1964, first year of the S-35 model, 520 ci 285 hp.
The third (rear-most) window on the side was larger, and different shape with the S model (photo of mine below), but the new style window was retrofitted to many Bonanzas by owners who wanted the newer appearance.
Originally posted by V-Tail: One of my pet peeves. I have a bit over 3,000 hours as PIC* in the Bonanza family, about 1,200 hours as instructor. I always make it clear to my client / trainees, that there is absolutely no valid reason to retract flaps while taxiing, and any attempt to reach for the flap switch while I am on board will not be tolerated. . . . < snip > . . .
It sounds a little silly, but after clearing the runway and stopping, I’ve been known to mutter mostly under my breath, “Looks like a flap switch, feels like a flap switch…” in the Travel Air.
A squat switch might save one’s bacon in an inadvertent screwup, but only a fool would count on one.
May 26, 2023, 07:40 AM
sphill
It seems the love for the v-tail has never really died. I understand they had the nickname "the doctor killer" because of possible lack of experience in flying that type of airframe. It seems that with modern technologies we could bring this design back and have electronic protections in place.
Has any company attempted this? It is such a classic design i'd love to see made again.
May 26, 2023, 09:30 AM
sourdough44
I do a little flying, glad this pilot made it out ok.
For learning purposes, I like to look at what the NTSB finds, not always conclusive, but often so.
Most ‘engine issues’ get traced back to fuel, may be fuel onboard, but tank selection gets messed up.
Only a preliminary report is out on this accident, mostly mentioning fuel. With the gallons listed & the shorter flight, should of been plenty. That said there are multiple tanks.
It sounds a little silly, but after clearing the runway and stopping, I’ve been known to mutter mostly under my breath, “Looks like a flap switch, feels like a flap switch…” in the Travel Air.
Not the least bit silly. I always encouraged folks I was instructing, to verbalize what they were doing. I believe that it increases focus and awareness.
