Remember my thread on blacklisting the doctors for prescribing scheduled pain meds? A member here- not sure his forum name- was kind enough to email me about a legal (for the moment) herbal alternative, kratom, originating from southeast Asia. I had never heard of it. I've been experimenting with it, with very encouraging results. Seems to work as well as Oxycodone for me, in fact in some ways better. The amount I have to take is rather high, but not a problem per se. I am just now completing the transition from Oxycodone and other prescription opioids.

Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for some help when I really needed it.

That’s good news. Do you know if they are drug testing for it? Hope it works.

quote:

Originally posted by Sigfest:
That’s good news. Do you know if they are drug testing for it? Hope it works.

From what I've read, it will not show up on standard testing, but they may be developing a test specifically for it.

Good news?
"Seems to work as well as Oxycodone for me."

Me thinks there might be a problem here.....

I would be very careful if I were in your shoes.

A recent investigation in Oregon found that over 70% of kratom samples purchased at retail tested positive for salmonella.

The FDA subsequently issued its first ever mandated recall of a food product by recalling all powdered kratom products from one large manufacturer, calling these products "an imminent threat to public health". Three other manufacturers subsequently recalled their products voluntarily.

The fda has also documented 44 deaths from kratom since 2011, and it was relatively unknown and unavailable until 2015. A number of the deaths were attributed to respiratory depression, the same thing you see with opioid and heroin overdoses.

I would think very carefully before using this substance. There are no standards for strength,purity, or anything else when it's sold as a food supplement. Additionally, logic tells you that if it effectively replaces an opioid then it carries most of the risks associated with them.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Marc1911,

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
a legal (for the moment) herbal alternative, kratom

In addition to reading up on the risks of using it, folks using or wanting to use Kratom should check their local and state laws. This drug is illegal in several states, including Arkansas.

Thank you for your input. It is illegal in several states and some counties. I'm aware of the salmonella problem. And yes, there is a problem: I'm in pain.

Just googled it, it's often consumed as tea. I assume boiling it cures the salmonella. Is there any standards to the product you are taking? Is it applied topically, ate, drank, smoked?

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
Remember my thread on blacklisting the doctors for prescribing scheduled pain meds? A member here- not sure his forum name- was kind enough to email me about a legal (for the moment) herbal alternative, kratom, originating from southeast Asia. I had never heard of it. I've been experimenting with it, with very encouraging results. Seems to work as well as Oxycodone for me, in fact in some ways better. The amount I have to take is rather high, but not a problem per se. I am just now completing the transition from Oxycodone and other prescription opioids.

Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for some help when I really needed it.

That would be me! Glad it helped, sir! If you have emailed me lately I haven't been able to get it, that email address was hacked so now I had to abandon it for another.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
Just googled it, it's often consumed as tea. I assume boiling it cures the salmonella. Is there any standards to the product you are taking? Is it applied topically, ate, drank, smoked?

I've seen it in loose powder, and capsules. It actually makes pretty good tea, similar to Japanese green tea.

quote:

Originally posted by WesleyDelArma:

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
Remember my thread on blacklisting the doctors for prescribing scheduled pain meds? A member here- not sure his forum name- was kind enough to email me about a legal (for the moment) herbal alternative, kratom, originating from southeast Asia. I had never heard of it. I've been experimenting with it, with very encouraging results. Seems to work as well as Oxycodone for me, in fact in some ways better. The amount I have to take is rather high, but not a problem per se. I am just now completing the transition from Oxycodone and other prescription opioids.

Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for some help when I really needed it.

That would be me! Glad it helped, sir! If you have emailed me lately I haven't been able to get it, that email address was hacked so now I had to abandon it for another.

No problem. And thanks again.

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
Remember my thread on blacklisting the doctors for prescribing scheduled pain meds? A member here- not sure his forum name- was kind enough to email me about a legal (for the moment) herbal alternative, kratom, originating from southeast Asia. I had never heard of it. I've been experimenting with it, with very encouraging results. Seems to work as well as Oxycodone for me, in fact in some ways better. The amount I have to take is rather high, but not a problem per se. I am just now completing the transition from Oxycodone and other prescription opioids.

Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for some help when I really needed it.

Do you get that "high" feeling or other side effects (my "talk-alot" switch comes on when taking opioids)?

quote:

Do you get that "high" feeling or other side effects (my "talk-alot" switch comes on when taking opioids)?

No, no high whatsoever (didn't get high from Oxy either, incidentally). However, I did feel a bit dizzy last evening, so I think I'm still adjusting the dosage. Feel fine today, and I just took some.

Different strains do different things. There's a few videos on YouTube talking about people's experiences with Kratom. Everyone's body is different, so you have to find what works for you. Some strains are more energizing, some are more euphoric. The rule of thumb is: white (up all night) is energizing, red (time for bed) is relaxing and somewhat sedating, green (in between) is a bit of both. Kind of a neutral, if that makes sense. I use white and green. If I'm hiking or cleaning my shithole apartment or having sex I do white.

Again, everyone's body is different. If you're interested watch some YouTube videos. A lot of people are using it to quit taking opioids entirely by switching to Kratom. Then quitting Kratom, which is from what I understand SIGNIFICANTLY easier to quit than things like hydrocodone or oxycodone.

I've been experimenting with red and white strains, and Bali. Yesteday found a local place carrying Maeng Da, so bought a whole jar. It seems to be working for my pain and fatigue issues.

It took me about 6 weeks to wean myself off Oxycodone. Literally down to my last 8 pills before WD symptoms subsided completely.

Okay, I'm willing to give it a go. Where to buy in San Diego?

Try your local smoke shop.

EDIT: Just realized you're in San Diego. Maybe over the innernet?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: kkina,

I also started occasional use about a year ago.
Not the best pain reliever in the world , but better than Tylenol or Advil. I use the Red Thai.
I worry a little about that it's habit forming properties and so, I use it sparingly.
You can adjust the dose to suit your needs. It does help with pain.
Never felt that 'party kind of high', but I don't use high doses. It is relaxing.
I order on-line and find it averages about $3 a dose for me. I pack 500 milligram capsules and take five caps. No driving , though and I don't drink with it.

I am posting this for purely INFORMATIONAL purposes.


One of the two major psychoactive constituents in kratom has high abuse potential and may also increase the intake of other opiates, new research shows.

The finding contradicts claims by kratom makers that the substance has no abuse potential and supports the US Food and Drug Administration's (FDA's) view that kratom is an opioid.

Derived from the plant Mitragyna speciosa, kratom is receiving increased attention as an alternative to traditional opiates and as a replacement therapy for opiate dependence. Mitragynine (MG) and 7-hydroxymitragynine (7-HMG) are the two major psychoactive constituents of kratom. Although MG and 7-HMG share behavioral and analgesic effects with morphine, their reinforcing effects have not been fully established.

Results of a series of experiments with rats show that MG does not have abuse or addiction potential and reduces morphine intake, "desired characteristics of candidate pharmacotherapies for opiate addiction and withdrawal," Scott Hemby, PhD, Department of Basic Pharmacological Sciences, High Point University, High Point, North Carolina, and colleagues report.

In contrast, 7-HMG should be considered a kratom constituent with "high abuse potential that may also increase the intake of other opiates," the investigators note.

The study was published online June 27 in Addiction Biology.

"Intriguing" Data
"The study tells us that the most abundant alkaloid in kratom, MG, does not have abuse liability and actually decreases subsequent opiate intake. The 7-HMG data are intriguing because it does seem to have abuse liability," Hemby told Medscape Medical News.

However, he said, "it's important to remember that 7-HMG is about 2% of the alkaloid compound of the plant, whereas MG is about 60%. That's about a 30-fold difference between those two alkaloids. That suggests to me that it probably wouldn't be reinforcing if kratom were taken as a whole plant with all the alkaloids and everything else in it."

One reason this is important to study, he said, is that there is evidence that levels of 7-HMG are elevated in certain strains of kratom or certain products that are being sold. This could be the result of deliberate adulteration of the product or the way the plant is harvested.

"For instance, if you leave it out in the sun to dry after it's harvested, a fair amount of the MG will be converted into 7-HMG. So it could be the way the plant is harvested and not an intentional adulteration," said Hemby.

There is no doubt that kratom is an opioid. What the FDA said was perfectly correct. Dr Scott Hemby
It's also concerning, he said, that people are starting to recognize that higher levels of 7-HMG seem to be associated with pleasure or euphoria. "No one has sold 7-HMG on its own, but it's possible that that could happen, and so it's important to know that there is a possibility of abuse of that particular compound," said Hemby.

He emphasized that the current experiments did not assess kratom itself, only the two psychoactive compounds of the plant. "My guess is, based on the ratio of MG to 7-HMG, it would not have abuse liability, but we are undertaking studies to look at that," Hemby noted.

The FDA is cracking down on kratom. There are no FDA-approved uses for kratom, and the agency has advised against using kratom or its psychoactive compounds MG and 7-HMG in any form and from any manufacturer.

Kratom has been linked to more than 40 deaths. As previously reported by Medscape Medical News, a recent analysis of kratom by FDA scientists found that its compounds act like prescription-strength opioids. The findings led the FDA to label kratom an opioid.

"There is no doubt that kratom is an opioid. What the FDA said was perfectly correct," Hemby told Medscape Medical News.

The study was supported by funding from the Fred Wilson School of Pharmacy, High Point University, and by funding from the National Institutes of Health. The authors have no relevant disclosures.

Addiction Biol. Published online June 27, 2018.

The article may be found in the following link:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.co...bs/10.1111/adb.12639

Thank you, ZSMICHAEL. None of this surprises me. Especially in the wake of the opioid crisis, we should see kratom use ramp up, and with it more attention from the government. I fully expect it to be classified an opiate and regulated at some point.

As far as deaths, there isn't a fully regulated drug that is not associated with deaths. That's just how pharmaceuticals work.

Being a long term pain management person, I have to do whatever I can do. No perfect solutions.