First; I am an aircraft electrician by trade and know the dangers of electricity.

Here's what I have; 15A general circuit.7 outlets on the circuit plus LED ceiling lights (8 total)spread out into two bedrooms.

In one bedroom, two of the four outlets work as do the lights. The other two plug have 2 VAC on the them and, each of the two "hot" holes will read 129 VAC to ground. (one of these two feed into the other bedroom and all outlets in there read out the same.

Pulled out both plugs and they look good (no burnt wires, good connections, etc.). Changed out the circuit breaker on a whim, no joy. Also, no GFCI outlet on the circuit either.

Also - the power did return briefly when nothing was touched. Then went out again. This was what lead me to the CB replacement.

Short of buying a meter which can follow the electrical path through walls (saw an electrician with one and still considering the purchase though) - any ideas from the brain trust on where to look for the flaw?

If the outlets are daisy-chained, it could be an internal problem with the connection.

Outlets are cheap, replace them.

Yup, they are daisy chained.

Time to find that box of spare outlets.

Thx

four outlets changed, still nothing.

Try removing the LEDs on the circuit and checking again.

Check the neutral wire connection on the upstream outlet.

Consider taking a lamp and plugging it in to every outlet. The first one to replace would be the furthest working outlet. Then the closest nonworking outlet.

It couldn't hurt to replace them all anyway.

Any idea how/where the LED lights were tapped in?

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
Try removing the LEDs on the circuit and checking again.

In the working room or other?

(Also, with the 2VAC stray voltage, those four non-working room lights all have a dim "moonglow" to them.

It sounds like you have lost the neutral mid-way through the outlet chain. Check the switch boxes and outlet boxes on this circuit to make sure all the neutrals are actually connected in the wire nuts- they are usually stuffed in the back of the wall boxes (outlets may not have this neutral bundle). I am not a professional but In houses I have owned I have had bundles of neutrals in wire nuts with a single wire that has popped out and also had one where the neutral was smashed and broken so it was intermitent.

quote:

Originally posted by LS1 GTO:

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
Try removing the LEDs on the circuit and checking again.

In the working room or other?

(Also, with the 2VAC stray voltage, those four non-working room lights all have a dim "moonglow" to them.

On the circuit your having the power anomaly.

If the light switch(es) are defective, the bulbs can have that residual glow, most often due to poor construction (bad quality bulbs) as the driver/transformer can still be energized it the switch(es) are defective.

With no blubs, the switch(es) should not present any load on the circuit, rather than having you start swapping them out.

(and also, back stabbed outlets and switches are a big peeve of mine. causing all sorts of issues.)

quote:

Originally posted by nshumway:
It sounds like you have lost the neutral mid-way through the outlet chain.

Older houses are also where you find cheated grounds with a neutral bond. Touch the fridge and the stove together and BAM!, you're dead.

I've never lost a "daisy chain" because of a faulty outlet because the series runs through the outlet side plates, which is just two screws and the brass plate. (like sigmonkey, I never use the stab in connections.). My son's new house did have a few outlets towards the end of a series where the installer removed the binder between the screws, probably thinking there would be a lamp circuit.

It'd bet on nshumway's guess. You have an open neutral somewhere. Find the junction where the light circuit is powered, and check the neutral splice there. I'll say it again and again, WAGOs are your friend (especially when splicing five wires).

Status:

Dropped and disconnected the LED in the "bad room." (Note: Everything is on the same 15A circuit.)

Replaced the outlet where the issue starts in the "good room" along with the one where the circuit enters in the "bad room." Also, replaced two others which were original to the house (1978 build BTW).

Bought a circuit trace (Klein) which includes the little adapter for power/neutral/ground connections. Adapter shows the first bad outlet (in the "good room" and replaced) as having hot and ground reversed.

So two questions:

1. Any ideas on where to look?
2. How can this "suddenly" happen?

V/R

Pull the cover plate off the "bad" outlet, stick your little tester in and then remove the outlet.

(let me know if the indicators change).

Then double check the wiring on that outlet.

Are any outlets "half hot" (one half on a switch) or fully switched outlets?


A circuit can have mis-wired outlets, switches, and/or lamp receptacles. All of those can fail, either high resistance, opens, or shorts.

Bad wire nuts, and bare wires touching each other or grounds, after years of being very close, but not a problem until a cord gets tugged the wrong way, or inserted with a bit more force.

Some can work with a light load, and then exhibit a problem with a heavy load, and vermin can get inside.

I have witnesses geckos laying eggs in outlets and found several mummified remains, showing years of them nearly filling a receptacle box, and in some cases never causing a problem, and others, resulting in blown breaker that would not reset.

Same thing with mice, stuffed full of insulation and cardboard and two little zapped micelets.

If you have a known good light switch, might swap each out, one at a time.

It is easier to test than to tell you how to test, without knowing the circuit.

You know from working on aircraft, that trying to troubleshoot or dictate maintenance without stepping out of the shop, is typically a no-no. This is that.

So, unless you can "see" the complete circuit and all loads, to include proper functioning ground pathing.

And finally, is the incorrect branch circuit or load that should not be, or is not obvious and you cannot "see" it. (like a load in an attic, crawl space, or smoke detector)

And why I did walk throughs with my electricians/low voltage guys/plumbers and provided accurate "as built" to include change order work when completed, to the customer upon closing/occupation.

It was very little overhead to do it, and always easier to fix something later if there was a problem.

If I were not 2000+ miles away, I would come by and swing from your ceiling fan.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:

If I were not 2000+ miles away, I would come by and swing from your ceiling fan.

Swing by, you say?

Why not just ride your Monkey Motorcycle? I think these are cool and would love to have one. The question is, Red or Blue?

Swing By On A Monkey
.
.

quote:

Bad wire nuts, and bare wires touching each other or grounds, after years of being very close, but not a problem until a cord gets tugged the wrong way, or inserted with a bit more force.

Hey Monkey - this was it.

I was beginning to think I had a connection inside the wall(s) until I remembered Residential Wiring 101, "Thou shalt not put spliced wires where they cannot be accessed. Thou shall put them in an exposed junction box so thine inspector can inspect."

Once I remembered that - I just worked my way backwards until I found which outlet had all the black n white wires conglomerated. Replaced dem nutz and that outlet too - all works now.

And my biggest fear (a mouse inside the wall eating wire) did not come true.

Glad to hear.

I hate worrying about electrisicle gremlins hidin' inna walls, when tryin' to fall asleep.

I replaced a dimmer switch the other day . When I turned the breaker back on I noticed that you could make the lights blink by just tapping the cover plate. When I was poking around with the wiring a neutral wire popped out of the wire nut connection . I remade that connection and all was well .

Drives me nuts at times when I see y'all having electrical problems. Pulling out hair, randomly replacing things, guessing along the way. 98% of the time I'd diagnose them ghosts in five minutes.

Glad you found it.

Glad you got it fixed.