Saw a charge for $499.99 on my statement that I didn't recognize. It was from paypal.
It was from a music store, but I don't have a clue what it could be. I have seen stuff on my statement that I didn't recognize before, and it turned out to be stuff that I bought but the merchant name was different than I bought from. But this time was a lot of money for a paypal purchase. So I proceeded to look online at my paypal account, and didn't find anything that resembled this purchase. So I called my bank and filed a dispute.

Then (this is where it gets interesting) I called paypal. It was an experience just trying to get through to a human on the phone, but finally got through. After explaining the whole matter to him, especially that there was no charge to my paypal account, he asked me for the full card number. I had already cancelled the card with my bank (waiting for a new one now), he comes back on the line telling me he found the transaction for $499.99. I was surprised, but asked for details. He told me that I bought a guitar amplifier with the card on eBay. I didn't buy anything is what I told him. He said that the purchase was made using my card but was sent to a different address. He gave me all the details that I asked for.

The address was 5 miles from my house.. I have the exact address. I think that someone in the past has managed to copy my actual card when I wasn't looking, probably a restaurant. Since they take the card with them when they charge it, I can't think of any other way that the number was stolen. Especially since the thief lived near me.

Paypal told me that they couldn't start an investigation because I already filed a dispute with my bank, but I'm wondering if I should do anything else? I feel really temped to "visit" the address that the package was sent. But I wouldn't knock on the door or something stupid like that. I did send a message to the seller on eBay, and haven't heard back yet. The purchase was made last week, so it was probably delivered already.

I just feel violated by this. Someone actually had my card in their hands to do this. I still have the card, but it is now cancelled. And I don't know how to prevent this in the future either.

Any suggestions?

Or just let the pros take care of this. I was toying with the idea of notifying the secret service or FBI, but not sure if they would do anything.

Update:
I just heard from the seller, and he said that he was able to get UPS to return the package. He said that he did this right after he read my message. He also said that he had 3 other transactions similar to this one recently. He doesn't know what that's all about. But At least I'm covered and maybe him as well for this transaction.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: terma-nator,

Let the pros handle it. It is a charge on your credit card, for which you are not liable if you didn't authorise it. You are not anything at this point.

Like Darrell Royal and others said about the forward pass, only 3 things can happen, and two of them are bad.

I visited a restaurant in a nearby college town a couple of years ago, using my card to pay. A few days later, $9,000 in airline tickets were charged to that card.

It was traced to a waitperson who had access to the card and the secret number. The card issuer took care of it.

quote:

Or just let the pros take care of this. I was toying with the idea of notified the secret service or FBI, but not sure if they would do anything.

The FBI is too busy with other stuff to be interested. The local police probably the same. Sad but true. I would let the experts do the research here. I would not go to the address. Some of the Forum experts here will come along soon and explain how this scam works.

Dang! I hate thieves.

I'm rather nuts, and check my statements online near daily. Plus get texted if there is a charge over a penny ...

quote:

Let the pros handle it. It is a charge on your credit card, for which you are not liable if you didn't authorise it. You are not anything at this point.

Not so easy - he references bank several times.

This is yet another example of why never to link your bank account to any online payment system like PayPal. Or to use it to pay anything online

Welcome to the new world of on-line purchases.

If it hasn't happened to you before you have been lucky. As I understand the most likely form of the scam, someone knows the UPS schedule in the area and waits to pick the item up off the porch as the truck turns the corner.

Another form of the scam is that the crook changes the delivery location using a UPS account, again to a location where the package can be easily picked up.

I am not certain how the airline and hotel ticket and reservation scams work since they have to be used by a person with ID and refunds must go to the cardholder. However, they are common. I was hit for about $3k in reservations to a LA hotel.

quote:

Originally posted by Georgeair:

quote:

Let the pros handle it. It is a charge on your credit card, for which you are not liable if you didn't authorise it. You are not anything at this point.

Not so easy - he references bank several times.

This is yet another example of why never to link your bank account to any online payment system like PayPal. Or to use it to pay anything online

^^^^ This....And Never EVER have a VISA Debit Card!

I read the post as referring to a credit card. On re-reading it isn't clear. The reference to Paypal gums it up further in my mind. I have never used PayPal so no idea how it really works.

If you are careless enough to be using a debit card as described, there may be some trouble.

I hope for your sake it is a credit card you are talking about. Either way, let the pros handle it.

quote:

Originally posted by Georgeair:
This is yet another example of why never to link your bank account to any online payment system like PayPal. Or to use it to pay anything online

Nonsense. He wasn't compromised by him associating his card or bank account with PayPal, but by somebody being given physical access to his physical credit card

If anything, it's a perfect example of why something like Apple Pay is superior to using your card directly.

Or, in fact, PayPal. If he'd used PayPal to pay at wherever his CC info was copied, they'd never have gotten it. Yes: PayPal, like Apple Pay, is more secure than using a credit or debit card.

The only way I can see PayPal was even involved was the CC thief associated his card with a PayPal account they set up, using his name and their own address. Him having his own PayPal account was irrelevant.

I use Paypal mainly to pay for an occasional item on Ebay. I always get an almost immediate email notifying me of the purchase. I don't recall if the email comes from Ebay or Paypal but I kind of think Paypal sends something.

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:
I read the post as referring to a credit card. On re-reading it isn't clear. The reference to Paypal gums it up further in my mind. I have never used PayPal so no idea how it really works.

If you are careless enough to be using a debit card as described, there may be some trouble.

I hope for your sake it is a credit card you are talking about. Either way, let the pros handle it.

See my prior post as to what was likely done.

I see no mention of a debit card. I expect it was a credit card.

How PayPal works: You register one-or-more credit cards and direct withdrawal bank account numbers with PayPal. They do test withdrawals of small amounts (like seven cents) to validate them. Then, when you pay with PayPal, you specify which source of funding to use.

Note that PayPal never takes any measures to ensure a funding source actually belongs to the individual associating it to their PayPal account. Or that the individual is who they claim to be.

quote:

Originally posted by Gene Hillman:
I use Paypal mainly to pay for an occasional item on Ebay. I always get an almost immediate email notifying me of the purchase. I don't recall if the email comes from Ebay or Paypal but I kind of think Paypal sends something.

PayPal. Every time. Instantly. And I do mean instantly.

As oldRoger stated, often the delivery address is a "drop" and the people who are at that address are uninvolved, and "confronting" them could be a bad thing.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:


How PayPal works: You register one-or-more credit cards and direct withdrawal bank account numbers with PayPal. They do test withdrawals of small amounts (like seven cents) to validate them. Then, when you pay with PayPal, you specify which source of funding to use.

Note that PayPal never takes any measures to ensure a funding source actually belongs to the individual associating it to their PayPal account. Or that the individual is who they claim to be.

I can't see any use for PayPal outside of eBay. I see folks buying and selling radio gear insisting on it, supposedly to preclude fraud, but the stories of abuse by Paypal make it seem like an imperfect solution at best. I certainly would not give PayPal or anyone direct access to a bank account.

terma-nator, FWIW, it's not unusual for credit card thieves to have whatever they buy sent to an address that is not their own. The idea is to swipe the package off of the front porch so that they get the goods without having to provide an address linked to them.

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:
I can't see any use for PayPal outside of eBay.

I use it all the time outside eBay. I used it with one of my holster makers and in a recent purchase here on SF, for example.

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:
I see folks buying and selling radio gear insisting on it, supposedly to preclude fraud, ...

Don't see how using PayPal necessarily precludes fraud.

I like to use it because then I don't have to disclose my CC number to the seller, I don't have to go to the trouble of purchasing a USPS money order or get a certified or cashier's check from my financial institution, or wait for a personal check to clear at the seller's end.

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:
...but the stories of abuse by Paypal make it seem like an imperfect solution at best.

It is imperfect, but...

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:
I certainly would not give PayPal or anyone direct access to a bank account.

Have you ever heard of a single instance of an illegitimate direct withdrawal by PayPal?

I haven't. And, in all the time I've used PayPal, I've only once heard of a security breach, and that wasn't even PayPal, but eBay. Since most people who use eBay and have PayPal accounts have their PayPal accounts "registered" with their eBay accounts, eBay users with PayPal were advised to change the email address and, for good measure, the passwords on their PayPal accounts.

PayPal is safer than a CC because you don't disclose your CC to anybody. It's safer than a personal check (certified or not) because you don't disclose your checking account number to anybody. And it's a hella more convenient than a USPS money order or cashier's check.

It's 2017 JALLEN. Nearly 2018. Paper is going the way of the dinosaur Plastic is soon to follow.

Term... are you using a PayPal CC which is linked to your bank account?

My neighbors had their mail stolen. The crooks started ordering expensive items. Seems they'd drop someone off during the day and when the deliver came, they'd come from behind the house and sign for it. My neighbor tracked the crook down. Address name, the works. The police couldn't be bothered. I asked him if he'd thought about going over and bang on the door? He had but decided other then a fight, nothing would happen.

It was a debit card. I only use it locally in restaurants, so that's how I know that it was used by someone living nearby.The card number was used by itself, and they used my name too. They did not use my paypal or ebay account. Apparently, they used it for a "guest" purchase without using either ebay or a paypal account. I didn't know about this, but you can use a credit card number to buy something from ebay and pay for it with paypal, and never login to any account.

I suspected that the item was sent to an address that is nearby the thief's house and he will pickup after delivery. I am still waiting for the seller to get back to me. It is still within the window where the item might not yet be delivered. I will try to get the tracking number if that is the case.

I don't understand why everyone doesn't have every single bank account set to send instant notification for every transaction...

If I get a notification, and I'm not in front of a terminal or computer making a purchase, something is up.

Also, set up your banking like firewalls or bulkheads... Create a separate checking account that's linked to Venmo, PayPal, Google Wallet, Android Pay, etc. Keep only a working amount of cash in that account.