Everyone was challenged.

quote:

Originally posted by newmexican:
Those people are liars, every school did it’s best.

As I said, the state Dept of Ed made student attendance optional. If nobody cares about education, why am I being paid to be there?

Instead of comparing teacher salary to some national average, let’s talk teacher supply and demand.

quote:

Originally posted by gjgalligan:

quote:

Originally posted by newmexican:

As a teacher of 18 years now, parents are the worst, they all think the ya re good parents but the majority of them are pieces of shit unfit to raise a chia pet. First order of education should be to ignore parents.

Sounds like something a liberal would say.
Oh yeah, you are a teacher so the odds are that you are a liberal.

I don't know what the people are like in your district, but in ours, a top 50 (size) in the country, 45% of teachers said neither parent had any interaction in the school year ended June 2019. Only 63% of students had at least 1 parent show up for open house, 39% of teachers reported parent(s) failed to show up for student teacher meetings.

Some other troubling local stats:
21.5% of homes speak no English
20.7% of students live in single parent households
Only 87.7% of parents have a high school diploma
Our high school graduation rate is a mere 91.1%
37.8% of students never logged on to get an assignment after 3/13.

How can the teachers be blamed if the parents don't act like parents?

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:
Three of my grand parents were teachers. They told me that they were actually only paid for the months they worked, during the summer they received their pay because they had chosen to have a reduced payment during the school year. This was a choice by them, some teachers took the higher payment during the school year and worked odd jobs during the break.

Perhaps the reason people think teachers are getting paid twelve months of the year is because teachers present it that way in their arguments for more pay. I’ve often heard statements like “Teachers average $48,000 a year while the national average salary for all professions is $54,000 a year.” In their arguments for increased funding, the teacher’s unions never compare their salary to 3/4 of the national average.

In North Carolina, a teacher is required to have a bachelors degree, and the starting salary is $35,000, and that only became effective in June 2019. A teacher with 25 years of experience with a MASTERS degree caps out at $57,200, and starts at $38,500. Teachers are required to show up at their school 2 weeks before classes start (typically between the 17-20 of August). They are required to complete their annual continuing education outside of school hours, and most do this over the summer, and it is typically 20-30 hours.

This year, the last day of school was June 15th, and they need to report back on August 3rd, so they get 7 weeks off. Consider NC teachers don't get paid time off, and no matter your experience or tenure, you only get 10 days of sick time of year. Furthermore, my wife's school has a report time of 7:15, a bus arrival time of 7:50, and first bell at 8:15, and they dismiss at 3:15, and busses depart at 3:30. Teachers can leave as early as 4:00 if they do not have any parent teacher conferences.

There are 190 days of required instruction days per state statutes (although most schools shoot for 195 to 200 in case of weather related events) and 15 teacher workdays, (12 are mandatory, and 3 are optional).

Also, most teachers grade papers or write lesson plans for at least 45 minutes every night. One person said that all you do is regurgitate the same lesson plans, but I can assure you that the schools have changed the curriculum so much, that is not the case for at least 65% of lesson plans.

https://files.nc.gov/dpi/docum...2019-20schedules.pdf

So, here is the calculation of what a teacher with 20+ years of experience and a masters degree is paid, and the number of hours during the last year:
1850 = 195 school days * 9.5 (8.75 school hours, .75 hour grading papers)
30 hours in continuing education. professional training
96 = 12 teacher workdays * 8 hours
80 = 10 days before school starts * 8 hours
40 hours annually for parent teacher conferences - this is conservative, some teachers have 2 hours per week.
=2095 hours annually

So, 2095/ 52 weeks is 40.2 hours per week, and all to get paid $55,000. As you can see by the actual hours, teachers do not work 3/4 of the year!

quote:

Originally posted by M-11:

quote:

My daughter and both daughter in laws are in the public school system. They claim they are working harder now then when classes were being held. Monitoring kids completing online work tasks, video conferencing etc.

My daughter is a school counselor she says this is a complete mess and a utter disaster. Parents aren’t cooperating getting kids to do online classes. These are parents who use school as daycare and are too lazy to confront their kids anyhow and force them to do what’s required.

Same for Mrs. M-11 who retired this year after 32 yrs. She said the last quarter (1st grade) was the most difficult of her career. She was usually up til 1100 or midnight waiting for parents to send in work. And now her former coworkers are trying to prepare for in-class start AND the possibility of a remote start for the upcoming year. This is on their own time (vacation) for which they aren't getting paid. A lot of parents found out just how tough the job is.

Ditto. The 3.5 months we were online at the end of the year were the hardest I've ever worked as a teacher. My prep times were easily doubled or tripled per class, and I was already teaching a 2 class overload (with 5 separate preps).

It was shitty and the models that have been proposed for the 20-21 AY are just as shitty and include a minimum loss of 25% of contact time.

But hey, my school gave all of us $100 Amazon gift cards as a thank you at the end of the year. Yay.

The thing I noticed most is how many of our students actually wanted to be in school after they were pulled from it. The social and emotional damage is real. Just one more invisible cost of the bullshit response to this bullshit pandemic.

PS: Yes, I work in a wealthy private school...which is severely cash strapped.

I have been following this thread and I have a question for SF Educators and Teachers:
Could a school district just begin using computer servers to provide a total on-line learning program? Once the server is up and running, couldn't kids just log on, complete the lessons and progress through the grade up to graduation?
Lower grades could have simpler programs with simple lessons for lower grades and progress up to more difficult lessons as age and skills increase. Students without internet access would be the only ones to actually enter a school building and then just to get the on-line curriculum? Do teachers now foresee a time when they are replaced by an electronic school?

I work for a school that the Teachers worked as hard or Harder to keep the kids learning.
We had virtual classes with the teacher spending many hours some after hours because kids were too lazy to be online when requested.
Our school gave out 100+ brand new Chromebooks to kids that said they did not have access to a computer at home.
Our town Cable company set up wireless hot spots in the town and also set up free internet for families that could not afford it.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
I have been following this thread and I have a question for SF Educators and Teachers:
Could a school district just begin using computer servers to provide a total on-line learning program? Once the server is up and running, couldn't kids just log on, complete the lessons and progress through the grade up to graduation?
Lower grades could have simpler programs with simple lessons for lower grades and progress up to more difficult lessons as age and skills increase. Students without internet access would be the only ones to actually enter a school building and then just to get the on-line curriculum? Do teachers now foresee a time when they are replaced by an electronic school?

Not likely. Could a school district set it up, sure but it is akin to being on a ship for the 2nd day and still getting your sea legs. Most districts do not overlap enough in their teaching curriculum that they have to create anew for online content.

A lot of it comes down to actually having the kids log on and complete the required coursework. Secondarily, most parents who work outside of the house do no want to leave their kids home alone to learn -(most states do not allow that until age 12 or 13). Those that do work from home, are having issues keeping their kids focused and doing their own work. Lastly, a recent report I read that my wife (who is the teacher in the house) gave me, it sounds as if over 80% of kids want to go back to school, and close to 40% of students in grades k-9 are showing some forms of depression or separation anxiety. Mine would give her left arm to go back to school to at least see her friends.

Lastly, some kids have learning disabilities that need one on one with specialists, teachers, or counselors. My wife works with these kids, and they are suffering the greatest as the parents struggle to attend to their kids learning needs.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
Could a school district just begin using computer servers to provide a total on-line learning program? Once the server is up and running, couldn't kids just log on, complete the lessons and progress through the grade up to graduation?

There are already a number of online-only learning programs out there. Some of the local school districts here have used them for years for certain situations, like for kids who are behind in credits and need to catch up in a class or two, or for kids in their Alternative School programs but who are too much of a disruption to be in school.

It usually doesn't work, because of the same issue that they're running into with quarantine online schooling: Lack of structure and lack of internal/external motivation.

Sure, in a perfect world, the kid would recognize the importance of their education, buckle down and do X hours of online classwork a day, and they'd make progress until completion. But that's thinking like an adult... Very few kids are wired like that.

The reality is that without the structure and discipline of an authority figure basically forcing them every minute of designated classtime to do their work, the majority of kids simply don't do much of anything on their online schooling. They instead spend their time fucking around doing fun/social stuff instead of doing their online schoolwork. And most parents either don't have the time or simply can't be bothered to be that motivating force for their kids throughout the day.

Think back to when you were 15... What if there were basically no consequences for blowing off your schoolwork in favor of something fun? Would you rather listen to a history lecture or try to get laid? Would you rather do math homework or play video games? Would you rather write an essay or go swimming?

Hell, even many adults struggle with doing online-only classes, and the problem is only magnified multiple times because they're kids. Kids' brains haven't developed to the point where mental concepts like delayed gratification and self-motivation are firmly cemented.


And that's not even getting into the other complications, like how to accomodate SPED disabilities, how to allow for social development if they're separated from their peers all day, etc.


There's really no substitute for in-person schooling, whether that's with a public school teacher, private school teacher, or a home school teacher.

Furthermore, while online learning can work relatively well for adults, children, especially younger children, are a far different animal.

They have developmental emotional and social needs that change as they grow; socialization is very important. That's why even the most dedicated homeschoolers have their own social networks to socialize their kids.

In the younger years (and I'm not an elementary ed person), the teachers also keep track of physical developments like motor skills, etc. which are nearly impossible to track online. (And parents may not be good enough or know enough...or care enough...to notice developmental issues in their kids.)

All good points. It just seemed to me that this on-line schooling seemed to something that may be more fully implemented in the future.

Online teaching has it's benefits and problems. Our district made sure every student had a computer and an internet connection. If a student didn't have a computer, one was provided. Cable companies connected the student that couldn't afford it.
Problems with online classes:
My camera on my computer isn't working today (bullcrap)
During a test I need to see hands and no cell phones out. Students have cell phones on their laps and think we don't know they are cheating.
But why do I have to show my work (because you answers are exactly the same as two others in the class regardless if they are correct or wrong).
I couldn't log on to my computer yesterday, but today I can.

You just can't give the guidance online like you can in the classroom. Zoom only works so far, it is a good tool though.

If you chose to be an auto mechanic, would you settle on sitting home and learning the trade online?
My son paid $6200 for a machinist class at night in our vocational district. School closed for the virus in March. Online until June. Who will hire him with very little hands on experience? No refund,

Even online learning for college age students has its drawbacks. Pay thousands for an education to learn at home online? My daughter goes to college in Georgia. She will return to school in a little over two weeks. Already she knows there will be less classroom time, but also classes will end at Thanksgiving break. She will do well grade wise but needs time in the classroom. Online doesn't have the personal touch that a teacher gives.

I wonder if it would be possible to NOT get into an argument about teacher pay?

I taught in public middle school in Seminole County FL for 10 years. In my estimation some teachers were vastly underpaid while others were grossly overpaid. I knew that teaching didn't pay as much as the career I left. (No one forced me to teach.) I really enjoyed teaching and felt fulfilled by it. Ultimately I left to earn a living that met the needs of my family. I wish teaching could paid enough for me to have stayed with it but I had to make the best decision for my family.

One issue I see with many teachers is they have degrees in Education rather than a subject area. I feel as though this devalues the profession. I have a degree in Chemistry with a minor in Mathematics. There were other "Math" and "Science" teachers who had degrees in Mathematics Education and Science Education which required far fewer actual math and science classes and more Education classes. Education degrees are perceived by many as "easy" degrees lacking the rigors of other areas of study.

Teachers aren't deciding to not go back to school. The unions and School Boards are deciding that issue. Some of the teachers I spoke to enjoyed "distance" teaching, others did not. Some found that there was no demand for their subject online. Band is difficult as an online class. Art is as well.

I'm saying that we are not equipped to handle school as anything other than a face to face experience.

Based on surveys that I know about that were taken about one month ago, approximately 25% to 30% of parents/guardians were not planning to have their students attend in-building school at the start of the 2020-2021 school year. These percentage numbers are probably close (in terms of personal safety concerns) to the same for school staff.

The reality starting next fall is that most all public schools will have to offer some form of online, at distance instruction. If they do not do so, these schools will suffer from greatly reduced funding. According to US Census data the per-student cost of education is about $12,000 yearly. So, many teachers are going to have to transition from an in-class model of instruction to one of online, at distance.

I do not know of a single teacher who believes that an at-distance approach to education is best for kids, especially younger ones.

Silent

Silent, I agree.

The county in which I live is offering four distinct choices. (At least they were as of this morning.) Interestingly Florida has had an online alternative to attending brick and mortar schools called Florida Virtual. Why does my county feel the need to reproduce an existing system?

The survey results for my county showed that 20% of the respondents were looking for an alternative to face to face/ brick and mortar schooling. Teachers were closer to 25% not wanting to return to their classrooms but I feel as though that number may be skewed because ALL support staff were polled, not just classroom teachers. (I feel as though many district level staff are weasels...just my option.)

quote:

Originally posted by rsbolo:
Interestingly Florida has had an online alternative to attending brick and mortar schools called Florida Virtual. Why does my county feel the need to reproduce an existing system?

Money.

School districts get a quantity of local/state/federal funding for each student that is enrolled and attending.

If a student enrolls in Florida Virtual instead of XYZ County School District, then XYZ County School District doesn't get that money. But if they enroll in XYZ County School District Online Academy, they still get that money.

It's all about the money.

Plus, I'm sure there's now a huge surge in grant money available for districts that want to implement their own online schooling system.

So that means even more money.