quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:

quote:

Originally posted by NOCkid:

quote:

Why can’t murder suicides start with the suicide?

I asked a retired judge that exact question a few years ago. It was his opinion that many times it begins as a murder, then the suicide occurs once the perpetrator grasps the enormity of their action.

I had this exact conversation with the little missus this morning. When the realization that they are truly fucked hits them, it is overwhelming to imagine any other way out of the situation they created.

And often they’ve just destroyed the only connections they had (family, loved ones) so they’ve nothing to live for or to strive towards after they’ve done so much irreversible damage.

I have waited a couple of days for more details to come out. The more details that come out, the more it sounds like there were a lot of horrible decisions made before and after shots being fired.

Tragic.

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:

quote:

Originally posted by NOCkid:

quote:

Why can’t murder suicides start with the suicide?

I asked a retired judge that exact question a few years ago. It was his opinion that many times it begins as a murder, then the suicide occurs once the perpetrator grasps the enormity of their action.

I had this exact conversation with the little missus this morning. When the realization that they are truly fucked hits them, it is overwhelming to imagine any other way out of the situation they created.

FWIW: Suicide is for all intents and purposes the murder of oneself and usually involves extreme anger towards others that the subject internalizes. I've been to many scenes of suicides and suicide/homicides, where it's been made abundantly clear by the suicidal person that they are attempting to destroy the life of others he/she holds responsible for their own pain through personal destruction. It's why first responders are generally taught to NOT bring family members to the scene or provide them with a telephone when a "loved one" is threatening to kill themselves. Killing the "loved one" or a cop that's trying to resolve the situation without death or injury is a very real threat. Read a few suicide notes and it's chilling the degree of hatred expressed.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
Not to be contrarian but if you are (as iss reported) negotiating for hours the idea you are leery when you go is somewhat not relevant. They knew (or should have known) the circumstances they were facing.

You never know what can happen on any call. One minute everything is fine, the next it isn't.

From what little info we have, the medic was on the swat team and is utilized as a swat officer being commanded by the OIC. We will have to wait and see when they release info. as far as what actually went down.

Been confirmed the shooter was sexually assaulting one of the seven kids in the home which is what brought the police to the scene initially.
Link



Police spent 3.5 hours negotiating with the shooter

quote:

and suicide/homicides,

If only everyone who was going to do both got this ordering correct.

Thank you for your sacrifices, gentlemen.

"It would be nice if elected officials could care about cops before they're dead."

- Sheriff Bob Fletcher
Ramsey County - MN


Minnesota Sheriff Slams Officials for Only Caring About Officers When They are Killed

Girlfriend of Minnesota man who fatally shot 3 first responders indicted for straw purchasing firearms

Story by Mara H. Gottfried, Pioneer Press • 2h •

ST PAUL, Minn. — Since three Burnsville first responders were killed in the line of duty nearly a month ago, law enforcement and the public have been asking how a felon with a lifetime ban on possessing firearms obtained the murder weapons. On Thursday, U.S. Attorney for Minnesota Andrew Luger said they can answer that question.

Ashley Anne Dyrdahl, the gunman’s longtime, live-in girlfriend, has been indicted for straw purchasing firearms used in the killings, Luger announced.

Shannon Gooden, 38, used two AR-15 style firearms to fatally shoot Burnsville police officers Matthew Ruge and Paul Elmstrand and Burnsville firefighter/paramedic Adam Finseth, and to injure Burnsville police Sgt. Adam Medlicott. Those weapons were purchased by Dyrdahl, 35, on Jan. 5 and Jan. 25, according to Luger.

Her attorney, speaking during a Thursday afternoon court appearance for Dyrdahl, said she is pleading not guilty to the 11 charges...

Complete article:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...firearms/ar-BB1jUK1j

Good.

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Originally posted by Sigmund:
Her attorney, speaking during a Thursday afternoon court appearance for Dyrdahl, said she is pleading not guilty to the 11 charges...

Good luck with that. She can't say she didn't know he was prohibited.

I have seen it over and over, some woman with no record looking at handguns while her felon man whispers at her over her shoulder.

I would THINK that gun store operators get a bit more leeway with discriminating against customers, but after that bakery thing, I'm not sure.

Can a dealer simply tell an obvious (at least to my eyes) straw purchaser that they are not going to sell to them?

quote:

Originally posted by AllenInAR:


Can a dealer simply tell an obvious (at least to my eyes) straw purchaser that they are not going to sell to them?

I work at our LGS and have denied selling to questionable customers as described. I’m not risking the FFL license for the owners to make them a couple bucks…..not worth it and the owners fully support that decision when it’s made.

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Can a dealer simply tell an obvious (at least to my eyes) straw purchaser that they are not going to sell to them?

The state of Minnesota seems to think so…

Minnesota now alleging Fleet Farm violated state gun control act when it sold firearms to straw buyers

Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison has updated a lawsuit against the Fleet Farm retail chain to include allegations that the retailer violated the state's gun control law by repeatedly selling firearms to "straw purchasers" who funneled the guns to felons barred from owning them.

U.S. Magistrate Judge John Docherty last week allowed the state to amend its original lawsuit, first filed in 2022, to include the new charge after the Minnesota Supreme Court clarified the scope of Ellison's investigation and enforcement authority in a ruling in an unrelated case.

In a memo to the court, Assistant Attorney General Eric Maloney wrote that Fleet Farm violated the Minnesota Gun Control Act "by transferring firearms to straw purchasers Fleet Farm knew or had reason to know were buying firearms for others, because each of the straw buyers falsely represented that they were the actual buyer in connection with each individual sale."

Minnesota is now seeking civil penalties for each violation of the gun control act and the state's public nuisance statute. Penalties can range as high as $25,000 per violation.

Attorneys for Fleet Farm opposed the change and unsuccessfully argued that Ellison is not empowered to civilly enforce a criminal penalty that is unrelated to consumer protection.

quote:

Originally posted by AllenInAR:
I would THINK that gun store operators get a bit more leeway with discriminating against customers, but after that bakery thing, I'm not sure.

Can a dealer simply tell an obvious (at least to my eyes) straw purchaser that they are not going to sell to them?

Yep. Any FFL can refuse any transaction for any reason per the terms and conditions of their license.

A common one here is most shops will decline a transaction if the person is believed to be under the influence or smells strongly like weed.

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin1069:


Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison has updated a lawsuit against the Fleet Farm retail chain to include allegations that the retailer violated the state's gun control law by repeatedly selling firearms to "straw purchasers" who funneled the guns to felons barred from owning them.

Big box stores are the worst offenders. They hire a lot of really young people and put them at the gun counter. I can’t tell you how many straws I worked where a dude and chick enter the store. The dude looks at three different pistols and says he likes X the best to the clerk. Then dude goes to the end of the counter, counts out cash and gives it to the female. Then
The female approaches the same clerk (who watched him count out the cash and give it to her) and completes the transaction to transfer the gun. And the clerk completes it.

When I was working guns, I could literally go stand in a store a couple of times a week and arrest someone on a straw. They don’t even try to hide it because they know that big box stores will complete the transaction no questions asked.

It was so bad that every so often ATF under covers would come in, complete a blatant straw purchase, and shut the gun counter part down at big boxer. Corporate legal would fight it in court, get their license back, and go right back to doing the same thing.