While I have mostly mountain hardgear when I was faced with being on a job site outside for hours I went with Helly Hansen. Their gear is very nice. The parka I have is too warm for anything remotely strenuous but good for standing around in very cold windy environments.

My wife picked me up one of their softshells for christmas and I am pleased by it's quality and fit.

HH makes commercial fishing, sailing, skiing and work lines and it quite reasonable for what you get.

Thanks for the suggestion dewhorse. I've seen their products in the past, but didn't know much about them. Even they sell so many different models of parkas and soft shells it's hard to know which one to go with.

To answer corsair's question, I want something that breathes, does well against wind, and is durable. 90% of the time it will be used in the outdoors in the winter with layers. There is obviously a difference between soft shells, but I'm not sure what that is. What in the fabric makes the Otte or HH more durable than a $40 Weatherproof or Columbia on Amazon? Is there something in the description that will tell me it will be more wind resistant or breathe better?

Another Helly Hanson recommendation here.

25 years ago I wasn't into fleece or poly, and had never heard of HH, but found a blue fleece jacket/liner for about $12 at TJ Maxx. I thought sounded like a women's brand, but it fit, was in the men's section and I needed another layer to add to a Carhartt jacket that wasn't warm enough. I almost bought a Columbia one, but it was over $30, and the HH name was almost invisible.

Over about the next 10 or more years, that jacket proved to be the warmest, most comfortable, longest lasting, windproof fleece I'd ever find. I've probably bought over a dozen lesser brand fleece jackets and pullovers since, and none have had the qualities that jacket did. When it finally wore out I looked up Helly Hanson for a replacement and realized I had gotten an incredible deal.

I keep looking for another HH at that price point without any luck. If their quality is still what it was from years ago, I believe they would be a worthy consideration. I don't see anything on their site now that is like the liner/jacket fleece I had, (had button loops on the cuffs, was intended as a jacket liner), but if I was looking for a replacement this one looks nice.

https://www.hellyhansen.com/en...t-51598?color=329179

For now, I'm stocked up with sherpa lined fleece jackets from Costco which work well and are warm for a good price, but they are dirt magnets that melt at the slightest spark or burning ember (needs to be worn under another jacket working outside or burning brush), and are about twice as bulky.

Edit to add:

quote:

Originally posted by Ackks:
Is there something in the description that will tell me it will be more wind resistant or breathe better?

I'm not certain, but have come to feel genuine Polartec fleece seems to be an indicator of better products.

corsair, I found the Alpine jacket for $120 with free return shipping, so I'm excited to check it out. It does look tactical, but had good reviews.

I found a few Helly Hanson shells and fleece I'm researching. They have great reviews and I appreciate the suggestion.

bigeinkcmo, is there really a noticeable difference between the proprietary fabrics that aren't treated for water resistance? I'd rather avoid waterproof as much as possible because they probably don't breath well. I've read that some BD shells react to being wet, which repels the water, but there isn't a treatment that ends up keeping moisture inside.

Soft-shells are an odd category of outerwear that most consumers have a difficulty understanding let alone most retail floor staffers. Hence their popularity has wanned over the last 10-years. Most people look at it, think its some kind of Neoprene-type jacket and move-on. Never quite understanding that a fully-waterproof jacket while it'll keep you dry, will likely not be very comfortable because it holds in a lot of your body heat, thus you over heat, causing your own body sweat to condense underneath, you become uncomfortable and then clammy because of the greenhouse cycle that's going on underneath. Soft-shells helps increase the breathability but allowing more air to pass through, while keeping some out. Soft-shells aren't for all climates, they work very well in dry air (higher elevations, arid, cold temps) but, have a harder time in humid air (sub- & tropical).

IN short, soft-shells, are more comfortable outerwear that excel where hard-shells have difficulty. Hard-shells are garments rated to be waterproof (not water resistant) with limited breathability. Soft-shells are garments that use stretch-woven textiles, sometimes with a dual face, sometimes with a laminate (Windstopper or, similar) that allows greater air permeability than a hard-shell but keeps elements at-bay. The dual face generally means the fabric has an outside face which is smooth (durable hard face) with a woven, much softer, opposite side (inside, next to skin) face.

Marmot was smart back in the 90's and created their M-system to rate their soft-shells, a system that other brands should've adopted but, didn't. M1 garments that had a laminate (blocks wind/rain) and a fleecy soft underside, M2 had some laminate but used lighter textiles, M3 no laminate or, fleecy underside, lots of stretch.

Popular models from different companies:
Marmot- Sharp Point (laminate, no longer made), Glacier (value version of Sharp Point), ROM (hybrid, all-purpose)
TNF - Apex Bionic (laminate and most popular style), Nimble (light weather shell)
Arc'Teryx- Gamma MX (answer to TNF Bionic and Marmot Sharp Pt)
Outdoor Research - Ferrosi (very popular light/mid-weight) popular with Greyman look due to subdued color palette
Columbia- Ascender (mid-weight w/laminate) excellent value

One of my go-to styles, esp for travel, is a very light soft-shell, that's a 1/4-zip, think golf windbreaker but more durable. I can wear a t-shirt underneath, look presentable while still deal with wind and maybe some drippiness in the air.

Thank you again, corsair. Lot of options listed. After checking the prices the Columbia you listed does seem like good value for $60. You loved the Alpine, so between those two, would you spend the $120?

quote:

Originally posted by Ackks:
Thank you again, corsair. Lot of options listed. After checking the prices the Columbia you listed does seem like good value for $60. You loved the Alpine, so between those two, would you spend the $120?

The OG Alpine has the tactical upper arm pockets, the Columbia is much more commercial...pretty different jackets, just depends on your usage.

quote:

Originally posted by bigeinkcmo:
I like it but likely won't be buying more Marmot products as the quality continues to decline. This jacket has seams coming apart that shouldn't...not for $190. Specifically my first one had pocket seams that failed. This jacket the ends of the sleeves where the velcro straps are located are falling apart.

Ever since they got bought by Newell, things have slipped and not been what they once was, I know they gutted a bunch of internal staff. Same issue with Mountain Hardware after Columbia acquired them.

I'm not worried about the tactical aspect or aesthetics at all. I want durability, wind cutting, and for it to breathe well. I'm not up on the technical features between the two, but if Alpine does those better, I'll gladly spend the extra money. Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
Arcteryx. Bring your wallet. And credit cards.

I was one click away from getting a Patagonia Jacket, when I discovered Arcteryx.

The products are amazing!! So much more durable and well made compared to many others. More expensive, but totally worth it in my opinion. The winter jackets are on a whole new level.

Arcteryx all the way for me.

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:

Their Alpine Jkt is the toughest soft-shell I've ever owned, took it hunting in Texas one year; doesn't look like they're making it anymore or, out of stock. Its very tactical though with the upper arm pockets and velcro, it was made for Afghanistan. Ironically, my order of their Capitol pants arrived, I'm very impressed, very Greyman but smart-casual look, these are now my go-to travel pants.

Soft-shell...you want something windproof with a laminate underneath or light with a lot of stretch? There's a lot of confusing grey-area when it comes to defining soft-shells. What's it's primary use 90% of the time?

Were you able to get the collar to stay down on the Alpine? The hood seems to push it up when it's rolled, so it's kind of annoying. Very well made though and seems to have stronger material than the Columbia. I will probably end up keeping the Columbia just because it's a better fit and has pockets. Thanks for both suggestions.

I'm still waiting for the HT parka to arrive.

Ackks, thanks for the update. Didn't realize you also ordered an Otte Gear HT parka in addition to the Alpine.

FWIW my Columbia Teiton (very much like your Columbia Ascender you seem to like) is due for delivery tomorrow so I'll post my impressions in that thread.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bald1,

Optics planet has a ~60% off sale on the Otte Alpine jacket and one color of the Hard Shell Parka right now.

I don't trust optics planet and their "1 Left in stock at this price" stuff, but I took the chance to order one at $130

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
Optics planet has a ~60% off sale on the Otte Alpine jacket and one color of the Hard Shell Parka right now.

I don't trust optics planet and their "1 Left in stock at this price" stuff, but I took the chance to order one at $130

If you don't mind the collar being up it's a nice jacket. The patches aren't that bad on the sleeves and it seems to have a more durable material than other soft shells. The nice thing about ordering from them is they have free return shipping right now. Hope you like it, Otto!

quote:

Originally posted by Ackks:

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:

Their Alpine Jkt is the toughest soft-shell I've ever owned, took it hunting in Texas one year; doesn't look like they're making it anymore or, out of stock. Its very tactical though with the upper arm pockets and velcro, it was made for Afghanistan. Ironically, my order of their Capitol pants arrived, I'm very impressed, very Greyman but smart-casual look, these are now my go-to travel pants.

Soft-shell...you want something windproof with a laminate underneath or light with a lot of stretch? There's a lot of confusing grey-area when it comes to defining soft-shells. What's it's primary use 90% of the time?

Were you able to get the collar to stay down on the Alpine? The hood seems to push it up when it's rolled, so it's kind of annoying. Very well made though and seems to have stronger material than the Columbia. I will probably end up keeping the Columbia just because it's a better fit and has pockets. Thanks for both suggestions.

I'm still waiting for the HT parka to arrive.

The collar stays up, my understanding it was designed (circa 2003-4) to be worn under armor in Afghanistan and the higher collar was both a function of the fabric but, also the packable hood and being able to protect the neck/collar-area from shoulder-strap abrasion of body armor. I wear it with the hood out, don't like it rolled-up, I know guys who've used it down range, for those who don't like the hood, they either fold the hood into the jacket itself or, simply cut-off the hood. Wished Otte Gear would make a non-hooded soft-shell using the same fabric.

That would be nice if they made one without a hood. I'll test it with the hood out before sending it back.

The HT finally arrived from Otte Gear and it was worth the wait. I'm not sure how abrasion resistant the outside is (or any parka for that matter), but I really like it. It fits well, so I'm glad I listened to them and sized up. It's what I was looking for. Thanks again for the suggestion, corsair.

corsair, how do you think the Carhartt soft shell would breathe? I ended up sending the Otte shells back and stumbled upon the Crowley in a store today. Seems rugged, but that doesn't mean it will breathe well if I'm hiking. Felt a bit stiff, but that's normal with Carhartt.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ca...102199-412/307290328

quote:

Originally posted by Ackks:
corsair, how do you think the Carhartt soft shell would breathe? I ended up sending the Otte shells back and stumbled upon the Crowley in a store today. Seems rugged, but that doesn't mean it will breathe well if I'm hiking. Felt a bit stiff, but that's normal with Carhartt.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ca...102199-412/307290328

Sorry, late in replying...
Keep in mind who's Carhartt's target customer is...guys on the work site. I've never seen this jkt, looks like Carhartt's version of The North Face's Apex Bionic and Canyonwall Jkt. Its got a laminate underneath so, it'll block a stiff wind but, may hold-in more body heat than you want during a hike.
At the $100 price-point, its pretty basic, there's a number of specials and end-of-season promotions going on all around now. Outdoor Research Ferrosi is one of the most popular mid-lt weight soft-shells over the last 10-years.

Thanks, corsair. You are right about the Carhartt.

There are some end-of-season sales going on. There was a Black Diamond Alpine Start on sale I picked up, but may be going back. Seems like it has great reviews, but it's as thin as a windbreaker. I'm sure it's worth it, I'm probably old fashioned, but I'd be afraid of snagging that on a hike or snowshoeing. The REI Activator was on sale for half the price and fits really well.

We keep an arctic carhart coverall (full jump suit) for each person in our family, in an emergency kit (with bunny/extreme cold boots). If we leave town, it's in the truck or bed of pickup from October through April.

I have two carhart arctic jackets. One the USAF issued me in 2002, I still wear it. One I had custom embroidered 2 years ago with my company logo. I keep that nice and wear it for site visits, meetings around town.

Around Alaska, MOST people put their kids in carhart jackets each year.

I have peacoats, and nice trench coats for formal business meetings, weddings, funerals, etc. My "go-to" is an arctic carhart. (Black liner)

For those here who have the Kuiu elements jacket, do you feel the side pockets are in a weird position?

I’m looking at possibly a hooded version of this jacket for everyday use here in northern Illinois and the price point looks to be decent and I like what I’ve seen so far...but those pockets seem like they are placed really high. So I figured I’d ask here to get opinions.