I have a circuit breaker in my panel that would not stay on. The circuit serves the ceiling can lights in my study, a couple of wall sconces, and two outdoor sconces on the porch. I have narrowed down the problem to the two indoor sconces. I can turn on the ceiling lights and the porch lights, and everything is fine. But I cannot turn on the sconces (even with the other lights off) without tripping the breaker.

What is most likely the issue - the wall switch for the sconces, the sconces themselves, the wiring in the wall???

And is there something I can do without calling an electrician?

Easiest thing you can try without calling an electrician is to take off the cover plate for the sconces switch and check and see if you have a ground wire touching one of the terminals in the switch.

Turn off power. Remove plate. Push grounds aside if you see it near the screws.

I am NOT an electrician.

I would check the switch and switch box as well. Check to make sure the wires are capped if the switch is in line. If the box is metal, I usually cover the switch or plug screws with a strip of electrical tape to avoid contact with other things as well as the box. I friend in MA does this (He is an electrician) but I have no idea if it's code or whatever in MI.

What Skins2881 said.

Just start checking all the points where wires are connected to things.

The only way, in my experience, that it could be the wiring in the wall is if you somehow punctured the wiring's casing. Is it romex or older stuff?

I'm sure we'll have actual electricians along shortly. Good luck!

Has to be a short at the connection to the sconces or in the sconces; Or a short at the connection to the switch or in the switch.

After checking for obvious shorts as outlined above. After turning off the breaker and checking for zero voltage with a meter, you could pull the switch and hardwire (wirenut) the (hot) feeder wire to the wire headed to the sconces. Turn on the breaker and see if it pops. If so, then the issue is likely to be up at the sconces. If so, then disconnect one at a time and try to isolate which one is the culprit. If not, the issue is the switch or its connection. Breaker on and off as required!

I don't mean to be insulting or dismissive, but my feeling is that if you have to ask this question you don't know enough about electricity or wiring to be messing with this, and should find somebody who does to look into it.

I am not an electrician, but I have been working with all manner of things electrical and electronic since the age of about twelve years old. I do all my own branch circuits, and have for years.

I give the above recommendation because of the number of people who've electrocuted themselves or others, or burned their homes or businesses down, because they had no idea what they were doing. And from being a homeowner and having seen what previous homeowners did.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
I don't mean to be insulting or dismissive, but my feeling is that if you have to ask this question you don't know enough about electricity or wiring to be messing with this, and should find somebody who does to look into it.

I am not an electrician, but I have been working with all manner of things electrical and electronic since the age of about twelve years old. I do all my own branch circuits, and have for years.

I give the above recommendation because of the number of people who've electrocuted themselves or others, or burned their homes or businesses down, because they had no idea what they were doing. And from being a homeowner and having seen what previous homeowners did.

Well I think this all depends on the person. His comfort level. I am self taught in many things I have done throughout my life time. From computers, rebuilding engines, residential electrical/plumbing, carpentry, wood carving,all systems in my RV.

How did I do it? I asked, I read, researched. So to discount someone’s abilities because he is asking others I feel is not fair to the OP.

OP sounds like you have narrowed it down to the wall sconces. The above responses are right on. Make sure you turn off breaker to the sconces. Removing loosen each sconce if they are heavy an extra person to support the scones is helpful.
At this point if you feel the need take pictures of the wire configurations which wires are connected to each other. Now check with a meter or 110 circuit tester,to make sure wires have no current. Look for signs of melted wires, or arcing, any exposed wire sticking out from the caps. There should be no exposed unisulated wires that extend out farther then the connections if there are repositioning the caps or shortening the exposed wire by clipping the ends of the wire just a bit. If the boxes are metal then you could have a wire making contact with the box. Wire nuts have limits how many wires and what size wires are connected for each wire nut. Make sure connections are tight.

Next thing you should be looking at is the wires going to the bulb. If a bulb of higher wattage then designed is used it can melt the wires or the bulb socket. They are usually light weight stranded copper wire.

Electrical repairs are easy, if you respect what it is capable of and you work with it safely making sure you are working with a dead circuit.

Sounds like you are doing great. You've eliminated a defective circuit breaker and most of the wiring in general.

Are we laying bets? 1] A mouse chewed through wires in the wall ... 2] A pice of Romex badly stripped of its casing has a nick in it. Are the sconces on an exterior wall? 3] The bulb socket is defective. If you remove the light bulbs does the breaker still trip?

########## D I S C L A I M E R ##########

I am not an electrician either. But once swapped out all my buddy's condo receptacles without turning off the power. Pulled a meter once or twice.

Since you have both interior and exterior fixtures on the same circuit, I'd only add to ensure that:
1) You have a GFCI CB or the first receptacle from the CB is GFCI
2) Your existing GFCI hasn't gone bad

Thank you for the replies.

I am perhaps the least handy guy around...but I am trying to learn. So if there is something I can safely do by myself, I'd like to give it a shot.

If I turn off the breaker that serves those lights and test for zero voltage, then it should be safe it seems. I have a voltage meter and a non-contact voltage detector, and I always check everything in the area I'm working on.

The house is just under 6 years old and this circuit and the lights on it were all working just fine until a couple of days ago. The sconces are attached to a built-in that is against an exterior wall (concrete block).

I'm going to check the wall switch first, as it is the easiest to get to. The sconces will require a ladder...and that's a different level of commitment.

quote:

The house is just under 6 years old

Is it an AFCI breaker? If so it may just be a loose connection.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

quote:

The house is just under 6 years old

Is it an AFCI breaker? If so it may just be a loose connection.

Its label says 115CAFI and the package says it has arc fault and ground fault protection. All connections are solid.

Sounds like the switch may be arcing causing the AFCI to trip. If you have a spare switch laying around, I would try changing it out. You can also try swapping the switch with one from another circuit if you're so inclined, and feeling brave.

If not, you can try isolating it using a couple possible methods.
1. Turn the breaker off, flip the switch to the suspected bad circuit (lights) on, turn on the breaker and see if it trips or if the lights come on and the breaker holds. If so the the switch is most likely bad. This method "usually" works.

Or... If you're comfortable doing pretty easy wiring...

2. Turn the breaker off, remove the switch and wire nut the 2 wires going through the switch together. Turn on the breaker and see if it trips or if the lights come on and the breaker holds. If so the the switch is most likely bad. This method almost always works if the switch is bad.

In either of the above cases, you can also try removing the bulbs from each fixture one at a time, to try isolating the fixtures as well. That would also re-seat the bulbs if they're loose.

quote:

Originally posted by ChicagoSigMan:

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

quote:

The house is just under 6 years old

Is it an AFCI breaker? If so it may just be a loose connection.

Its label says 115CAFI and the package says it has arc fault and ground fault protection. All connections are solid.

Solid? Are we talking at the breaker, or along the branch of the circuit that you have isolated as the problem?

A tripping AFCI breaker can be a bit of a pain to diagnose, luckily you've isolated it to a switch and two sconces.

You need to remake all connections from switch to sconces until problem goes away. I'd start by replacing switch (use screw terminals not stab in) and checking the neutral connections to make sure there is a good twist under the wire nuts. Reset breaker and see if problem goes away.

If not, next step. Remove sconce cloest to switch, check hot and neutral connections and restore power with fixture left uninstalled. See if problem goes away. If so move further away sconce to closer location and retest. If still good the hang sconce that was closer to switch in further location and see what happens.

Report back here or email me and I will walk you through it. If I help, I'll accept payment in chocolate.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
I don't mean to be insulting or dismissive, but my feeling is that if you have to ask this question you don't know enough about electricity or wiring to be messing with this, and should find somebody who does to look into it.

I am not an electrician, but I have been working with all manner of things electrical and electronic since the age of about twelve years old. I do all my own branch circuits, and have for years.

I give the above recommendation because of the number of people who've electrocuted themselves or others, or burned their homes or businesses down, because they had no idea what they were doing. And from being a homeowner and having seen what previous homeowners did.

Well, one can start out ignorant and if careful, can learn. Or one can just choose to stay ignorant. While I don’t always encourage folks to learn about things that can be dangerous, I never push people to remain ignorant. YMMV.

ETA: Not an electrician, just a farmer, and I don’t work on anything bigger than 12KV (and that is only burying arcing downed lines that are trying to start a fire). Biggest stuff I typically mess with is 480v, and that is usually just debugging well issues / changing fuse. While I’ll open the boxes hot to read error codes on the motor savers, I always drop the handle, visually verify that the blades are all the out, *and* and use a meter to verify that all three legs are cold before touching anything. I’m told one typically only screws up with 480v once.

120/240 is less scary, but still deserves respect. A fun project last week was putting some outside led flood lights on the garage so my son can practice basketball more hours. He got to learn about breakers, legs, running EMT and using a tubing bender, wiring three way switches, pulling wire, outside boxes, etc. It is all stuff I learned either by asking question or watching and asking questions. It can be a lot of fun to learn, and if one is careful, it need not be unduly dangerous.

Lots of good advice here. Hoping to have time tomorrow to work on it.

One thing I see over and over in my house, some 20 years old, are wires "stabbed" into switches and outlets. I think the code was revised to require that the wire be wrapped around a screw some years ago. But, these pushed-in wires most often create arcs, heat, and fracture the enclosure of the switch in time. You may find such an issue in your abode.

Good call 4MUL8R. Switches are a few bucks. I would replace the switch, and diagnose from there.

I have no freaking clue what a "sconce" is? That term I have ever heard around here. Perhaps disconnect these "sconces" as well.

I had a breaker go bad, and it would trip every time you flipped it. Maybe the load of the sconces is enough to trip it?

quote:

I have no freaking clue what a "sconce" is?

Generally, any decorative light fixture that mounts to a wall.

quote:

I have no freaking clue what a "sconce" is?

Then you are probably not qualified to provide electrical or interior design advice.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
If I help, I'll accept payment in chocolate.