Put me in the category of all men are equal. Shouldn't be harsher punishment for cop killers and there shouldn't be hate crime laws. Just enforce the laws on the books.

The real change needed is a criminal sentenced to death penalty should be given 3 years for appeals and then they should take a dirt nap. We shouldn't have to house and feed them decade after decade.

I say no. If it's intent is to be used as a deterrent (Like those ~"fines double in school zone" signs, I doubt someone willing to commit murder is taking into consideration the potential punishment based on the employee of the intended victim.

As counterpoint to the below and with All due respect to the honorable @.38supersig (PLEASE take no offense): Why not add Nuns and Sunday school teachers to this list? How about kids under 10, social workers and Soldiers? You could go on and on... IMO the lives of the innocent are equal in value.

quote:

Originally posted by .38supersig:
Absolutely!

First responders, EMTs, and firefighters should also be included.

If hate crime laws (don't forget to pay your drug dealer) offer harsher punishment, could it not be said that the perpetrator 'hates' the policeman that would potentially arrest them?

Equal justice for all.

I will add that in the case of certain crimes, there are multiple charges that can be levied, and I have no trouble with it, as it is not lessening one person over another.


In that manner that a charge of killing a police officer, could be an additional charge.

Not because the police officer is "more valued", but that the charge is levied against the murderer as an additional reprehensible act that is deserving of sentence as a capital crime.

In a case where a police officer and non-LE persons were killed, the one committing those acts would be charged with separate (equal) counts of murder, and an additional count of killing a police officer.

That does not diminish the non-police officer, but sees both as equals.

quote:

Originally posted by dsiets:
Some of the responses here, they shouldn't complain if LE doesn't run in to save their family. If they have no extra protection for running toward the danger while we all run away, then who is going to do it?

No state puts more murderers on death row than Texas. I know quite a Texas LEOs and can't think of a single one who runs towards danger because he/she knows if they die the perp is death penalty eligible. They run toward danger because of their character and training (e.g. post-Columbine active shooter doctrine changed to engage rather than surround).

Shitbag district attorneys prosecuting fellow officers instead of the criminal is orders of magnitude more likely to stop LEOs from running toward danger.

quote:

Understand, I'm not talking about lesser punishment for those that kill citizens. I'm talking about being able to throw the whole book rather than the tradition of dropping charges and making deals just to get some sort of prosecution.

1. Harsher penalties won't stop a district attorney from pleading down to lesser crimes. They do it due to case load and political pressure and/or philosophy.
2. Voters need to do a better job of researching District Attorneys before they enter the voting booth. All over the country voters fell for the dubious low level crime reform district attorney candidate, and it turns out that "reform" was up to and including premeditated murder.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:

quote:

I mean, a murderer should face the harshest of punishments, no matter whether the person they killed is law enforcement or not... right?

No, the punishment should be that same regardless of who was killed (I’m a retired cop)....

You're in agreement with him. Not sure why you say no.

quote:

If we are going to hold LEOs to a higher standard of conduct then we must hold crimes against them to a higher standard.

We hold all manner of occupational professionals to a higher standard. Does that mean that we should hold crimes against them to a higher standard too?

Take commercial truck drivers for example. Should a road rager who rages against a CDL holder face a more harsh punishment than one who rages against a regularly licensed person? And what if they road rage against an unlicensed driver? Should we let them completely off the hook?

In my eyes, police officers are entrusted by the public to enforce laws and catch criminals.

With that said, it's one thing to break the law. It is something totally different to evade, assault, or murder those entrusted by the public to enforce those laws. Law Enforcement Officers represent the people, they are the line of defense between rampant crime and civility. Saying they are just another human is mildly insulting at best in my eyes. Murdering a police officer is no different than killing the prosecutor to avoid charges or a judge to avoid a conviction.

I see it as attacking the system to avoid consequences. If people think they can get away with assaulting or murdering police then their ability to enforce law is diminished. No different than criminals learning that if they exceed 80mph or drive into oncoming traffic pursuits must be terminated, two easy ways to evade capture and continue criminal activity.

I recall a time when people didn't even think about messing with the police because they knew it would end very badly for them. Let's be honest and practical, that is the only way some people learn.

No. We're all either equal under the law, or not.

I'm torn on this. Yes killing a cop is awful but so is killing in other crimes. I think we should stop getting soft on violent crime period. If you violently kill someone for no real reason just go away, jail/death row whatever. Killing a cop or someone's grandmother shouldn't matter. That person should just be gone.

As a retired cop my initial response would have been a strong YES. But, having watched the past 60 years of dividing up our nation by groups for special rights and treatments, I have to chime in for equal justice in every case.

Yes, I understand that I am whistling in the dark with no hope of ever achieving the goal.

Yes for cop killers as well as any other 1st responders (fire/ems/ emt/ etc..) especially if they are in the actual lawful performance of their official duties of saving lives and are engaged in legal actions............. But before this happens the punishment for anyone else needs to be better enforced... Do the crime then do every single day of the sentence without any time off for good behavior.......If the bad guy can be back out on the street before the ink on the arrest report can dry what is the deterant to not commit crimes. ....................................... drill sgt.

kill them like they killed the cop.
fucking coward offed himself yesterday after killing a young cop on friday for just doing his job.

Those that kill kids or elderly should suffer a more painful death than anyone.

Cops aren't any more special than anyone else. Not sure why this is even a question.

Retired LEO here, and my answer is "no." Murder is murder regardless of what the victim does for a living.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
Those that kill kids or elderly should suffer a more painful death than anyone...

I'll go further by saying, chill molesters/rapists deserve swift death. That has always been my sentiment.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:

snip

Cops aren't any more special than anyone else. Not sure why this is even a question.

I agree with you and the majority if the cop is minding his own business on his own time and is murdered it's a tragedy for the family.

If the cop is on watch and is murdered protecting me, mine, yours, civilization than the price goes up. "Thuglife" magazine ought to have to run op-eds to protest how the thug was just doing his job too and it's not fair. Make sure everybody knows. Shout it loud and clear.
Everybody on this forum seems to understand that when a cop puts on his symbols of authority, badge, gun, blue, gray, green, tan uniform or if he's in plain clothes and on duty he just flipped the switch and became a target.
A cop on duty is standing not just for me and mine, you and yours but for civilization as well as the cop next on the roll-call to suit up.

The victim cop is not getting special preference here, the shit-bag that shot him is, just not in the way he'd like.

assuredly yes, and all first responders as well. I am retired LEO as well.

I think some are confusing our differing levels of respect for the victim with their worth as humans.

Being on duty or off is of no consequence.

Being on duty and working the job means I have respect for the cop, because of the inherent danger. That respect doesn't go away when they are off.

But a cop on duty is worth no more as a life than a young lady who is unemployed. There is no difference based off profession or activity while being killed.

All life is worth the same (with the obvious exceptions) so if harsher punishment is given to someone who kills a cop, you are by default devaluing the life of non-cops.

What about a school teacher? A doctor performing surgery? A farmer? I'm not sure I understand this on-duty logic.

^^^
And why I argue that "additional" charges can/should be levied.

This sets the "baseline" that all people are equal as "victims" and equal charges should be levied.

But, additional charges for "1st responders, Fire Department, LEO, Doctors, lawyers, Indian Chiefs, teachers, etc." should be added as applicable.

So, no one is considered "worth more, or less", for a crime committed, only that "more charges" added considering the offense to office or position is also egregious, and needs additional consideration as it pertains to the person that commits the offence and the need to punish such behaviors.