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A Grateful American
Picture of sigmonkey
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Who's gonna serve the warrant Putin and/or take him into custody?




"the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" Ani Yehudi אני יהודי Le'olam lo shuv לעולם לא שוב!
 
Posts: 44689 | Location: ...... I am thrice divorced, and I live in a van DOWN BY THE RIVER!!! (in Arkansas) | Registered: December 20, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Captain Morgan
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It would be great if Poland invades Belarus and that little piece of land to the north of Poland.
Putin would have a fit.



Let all Men know thee, but no man know thee thoroughly: Men freely ford that see the shallows.
Benjamin Franklin
 
Posts: 3985 | Location: Sparta, NJ USA | Registered: August 16, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sigmonkey:
Who's gonna serve the warrant Putin and/or take him into custody?


The same type of people that may have added warfarin to Stalin's food or at least delayed treatment for a stroke, depending on who's story you believe. Those closest to him.

His closest "friends", the ones that were enjoying the party and all those ill gotten gains that are now frozen and put at serious risk due to his egomania.

They have a serious problem right now, but add the threat of ending up like Saddam and that could make them see the urgency in ending this recent unpleasantness quickly. The rats will be jumping off the sinking ship and happy to have a chance to move up the food chain as a potential bonus.

They may realize soon that what's good for Vladimir isn't all that good for them.


___________________________
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Posts: 9981 | Location: NE GA | Registered: August 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of bigdeal
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quote:
Originally posted by Captain Morgan:
It would be great if Poland invades Belarus and that little piece of land to the north of Poland.
Putin would have a fit.
Can we relax for a moment and get back to reality. The goal should be to make all of this stop right where it is asap. Let's not hope for any more escalation given the terrible things that could come out of that.


-----------------------------
Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
 
Posts: 33845 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: April 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lawyers, Guns
and Money
Picture of chellim1
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quote:
The goal should be to make all of this stop right where it is asap. Let's not hope for any more escalation given the terrible things that could come out of that.

Yeah... but... making "all of this stop right where it is asap" sounds an awful lot like what the Austrians thought when Hitler moved in. I don't think you mean Ukraine should surrender.

A policy of appeasement never works with someone like Putin.



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 24859 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Who financed and supported Zelensky's rise to power in Ukraine? Was Russia involved initially as an ally (relationship turned sour) or did the $ come from somewhere else?

Regarding Belarus - the last time I checked Russia has quite a bit of hardware there on standby. I would much rather face conventional Russian forces as a defender vs. as an aggressor. Not sure that would end well for Poland.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Graniteguy,
 
Posts: 4979 | Registered: April 20, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
A Grateful American
Picture of sigmonkey
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quote:
Originally posted by 220-9er:
quote:
Originally posted by sigmonkey:
Who's gonna serve the warrant Putin and/or take him into custody?


The same type of people that may have added warfarin to Stalin's food or at least delayed treatment for a stroke, depending on who's story you believe. Those closest to him.
...
They may realize soon that what's good for Vladimir isn't all that good for them.



Do you think for a moment, that those in such positions ever see any foreign forces bringing Russia to its knees and anything like Nuremburg ever happening to them?

They got them nukes up in there, it is never going to be a "defeat" of Russia to facilitate dealing with war crimes and folks swinging from gallows.

While I agree that what you say about Putin being deposed by "his own" or someone taking him out in clandestine manner, it is not the same as "war crimes trials", and what my response was speaking to. Smile




"the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" Ani Yehudi אני יהודי Le'olam lo shuv לעולם לא שוב!
 
Posts: 44689 | Location: ...... I am thrice divorced, and I live in a van DOWN BY THE RIVER!!! (in Arkansas) | Registered: December 20, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His Royal Hiney
Picture of Rey HRH
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quote:
Originally posted by Gustofer:
Zelensky gets a standing ovation from the EU, but then they say, "Sorry, you're on your own". Roll Eyes

Bunch of pussies.

They don't get that they're next, but you can damn sure bet they'll be begging for help too when their time comes.


So what the fuck was getting Ukraine to be part of the EU all about??? I'm confused if, as you say, they're not going to do shit for Ukraine. I'm not arguing with you; I'm asking.



"It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946.
 
Posts: 20255 | Location: The Free State of Arizona - Ditat Deus | Registered: March 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of bigdeal
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by chellim1:
quote:
The goal should be to make all of this stop right where it is asap. Let's not hope for any more escalation given the terrible things that could come out of that.

Yeah... but... making "all of this stop right where it is asap" sounds an awful lot like what the Austrians thought when Hitler moved in. I don't think you mean Ukraine should surrender.

A policy of appeasement never works with someone like Putin.
Although harsh, I've said before and I stand by my statement, Ukraine is irrelevant to US interests as far as I can see. They are not a NATO partner, nor are they ever going to be. We have no responsibility to meddle in what goes on there. However, a real president (and no we don't have one), would coordinate with the NATO and EU partners, and then behind closed doors make it abundantly clear to Putin that he dare not step across the Ukraine border into any NATO country or we as a group would respond with both military force 'and' completely shut down the Russian economy.


-----------------------------
Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
 
Posts: 33845 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: April 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of bigdeal
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quote:
Originally posted by Graniteguy:
Who financed and supported Zelensky's rise to power in Ukraine?
From what I've read online, the US played a fairly significant role in his rise to power. That's a huge part of the reason (along with the rampant corruption in Zelenshy's administration), Putin views him as illegitimate.


-----------------------------
Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
 
Posts: 33845 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: April 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Likely the WEF bankers are responsible for this. Global government from the shadows
 
Posts: 1507 | Registered: November 07, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gracie Allen is my
personal savior!
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by bigdeal:
Although harsh, I've said before and I stand by my statement, Ukraine is irrelevant to US interests as far as I can see. They are not a NATO partner, nor are they ever going to be. We have no responsibility to meddle in what goes on there. However, a real president (and no we don't have one), would coordinate with the NATO and EU partners, and then behind closed doors make it abundantly clear to Putin that he dare not step across the Ukraine border into any NATO country or we as a group would respond with both military force 'and' completely shut down the Russian economy.

Yes, because warning off Putin has been documented to be so effective.

Tell you what - look at a map of Europe, ask yourself whether the rest of NATO still trusts in our commitment to them, find Europe new, plentiful sources of oil and natural gas, and then try again.

And chellim, if Putin gets dialed back he'll need to be dialed back all the way to 2014 or the sore will simply continue to fester and we can all look forward to a repeat of this exercise some years down the road.

Nobody's claiming to have a magic wand, but half-assed is what got us where we are today.
 
Posts: 27313 | Location: Deep in the heart of the brush country, and closing on that #&*%!?! roadrunner. Really. | Registered: February 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Since the end of World War II, Europe has largely, enjoyed its longest period of peace in history. Aside from Cold War flare-ups, and the problems in the Balkans, it's time for Europe to wake up and acknowledge the threat. The people need to elect adults and those in uniform need to speak plainly.

Europe’s Wakeup Call - The Ukraine invasion has reshaped the balance of power on the Continent
quote:
The very thing Europe considered unthinkable for the past 30 years has happened: Russia has launched a war that will reshape the balance of power and potentially transform the international system. Europe now finds itself confronted with first principles of state behavior. According to international law, Ukraine’s self-defense campaign against Vladimir Putin’s unprovoked attack checks all the boxes of a “just-cause war.” So regardless of how Ukraine’s tragedy unfolds, the West must ask, and honestly answer, how it got to the point where cities are being bombed, soldiers and civilians are dying, and options for response are limited.

Putin chose to attack Ukraine at what he must have judged to be the most propitious time for Moscow. The move was neither sudden nor provoked, as some have argued, by his fear of continued NATO enlargement or of democracy succeeding in Ukraine. Rather, it marks the culmination of almost two decades of policy aimed at reconstructing the Russian empire and bringing Russia back into European politics as one of the principal players empowered to shape the Continent’s future. To get to this point, Putin has exploited two trends: America’s post-9/11 preoccupation with counterterrorism campaigns and “nation-building” projects that ate up billions of dollars in spending, and Europe’s decision to move away from coal and nuclear power, while declaring natural gas a “clean” fuel and a “gateway to renewables,” as part of its climate policy. Most importantly, European discussions on how to address climate change set aside the national security considerations of such a radical realignment of the energy mix. The two gas pipelines, Nord Stream 1 and Nord Stream 2, which bypass ones running through Ukraine and Eastern Europe, have become practical and symbolic manifestations of a flawed EU climate policy.

The West’s geostrategic myopia has also paved the way for Putin’s invasion of Ukraine. First, a majority of European governments had refused to recognize that Russia has remained a quintessentially revisionist state, intent on regathering the former Eastern Slavic imperial core (Belarus, Ukraine, Russia) and reestablishing a Russian sphere of influence in Central Europe and Central Asia. Putin’s recent military intervention in Kazakhstan was a clear message to the world—and to China and Turkey, in particular—that anyone interested in access to resources in the region must talk to Moscow first. In Eastern Europe, our failure over the past 30 years to compete for influence in Belarus has resulted in a de facto reintegration of that country into Putin’s empire. Should he succeed in breaking Ukraine’s resistance, he will attempt to do the same there and then move to pressure countries in the Baltic–Black Sea region inside NATO’s fence.

Putin’s vision for the future of the Continent is not one that accepts European economic and transatlantic security institutions. He seeks a new “Concert of Europe,” built on bilateral relations—one that does not include the United States. In this quest for empire, he has targeted Germany in particular, offering the nineteenth-century Bismarckian vision in reverse, with the goal of establishing clear spheres of influence in Europe. Yesterday, speaking at a special session of the Bundestag, German chancellor Olaf Scholz delivered an unequivocally negative answer to this “Russian question,” calling instead for rebuilding the armed forces, strengthening the NATO alliance, and building up Germany’s liquefied natural gas reserves.

Each time Putin has resorted to military power over the past two decades (Georgia in 2008, Ukraine in 2014, Syria in 2015), he has notched major geopolitical wins. The West has proved unable to react. Like any backyard bully, Putin will continue until someone punches him in the nose. Either we stand tall and confront the man who has lit a fire in Europe yet again, or we prepare for more pressure and war in Europe.

Today, Europe is largely disarmed. For deterrence to hold along NATO’s eastern flank and for NATO to have the means to act, our European allies must rebuild their militaries. NATO should end its arguments over the requirement of member states to spend 2 percent of GDP; instead, each European ally should commit to fielding real, exercised military capabilities as part of NATO’s operational planning, with the United States providing the nuclear deterrent and high-end enablers.

If we want to stop Putin from further destabilizing Europe, Nord Stream 2 should not just be suspended but scratched altogether; other natural gas producers can replace Russian gas. Europe needs to revise its climate targets with an eye to national security—Fit for 55, the unrealistic plan to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions 55 percent by 2030, should be shelved, and Europe should bring nuclear power back into its energy mix. A good first step would be to keep Germany’s remaining three nuclear reactors operational. Most of all, as long as Ukraine continues to fight, whether in this phase or next, it deserves Western help. This means weapons, money, supplies, and political support.

If anyone still dreams of a post-historical brave new globalized world, Putin’s invasion of a peaceful neighbor should serve as a decisive wakeup call. If we fail to heed this one, we will face worse times ahead.
 
Posts: 15190 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Warfare in the Ukraine has been ongoing for decades, largely revolving around two states that are mostly Russian speaking.

"Unthinkable" is a bit much when the bullets and bombs have been flying constantly.

At present all the talk about "Putin is gonna invade the EU!" ignores him already accomplishing most of his goals in the first three days, avoiding major shelling or street to street fighing in major urban areas, and already offering negotiations. First, Zelensky doesn't even step down, it's not even on the table. Another, "demilitarization" has already occurred in the strategic area with air strikes on the American sponsored bio labs doing work in the Ukraine. Another is the removal of what was called "nazi's" which characterized the Azov battalion - which deliberatly adopted a 1930s symbol used in Germany during the '30's and 40's.

It's been - what - a week? And peace negotiations are already ongoing. So why speculate on Russia invading multiple other countries? If there is anything that sets the tone for this conflict in the news coverage, is the complete lack of facts and any combat footage. There is supposed to be a war on? Far too much of it has been old stock footage of past events, rumors, and bluntly, out right lies. And none of it is repeating the stories of the Ukraine corruption that was installed during the Obama era.

What we are seeing is not Biden vs Putin, its Obama vs Putin. Theres no need to pick a side until you get all the facts - and one of those facts is that as citizens, you and I aren't directly affected by this except those exploiting the markets for fuel and gas. For that, the pipelines still remain open and Europe is still getting it's commitments met.

How is this a "major" conflict when utilities are still open, limited objectives are being pursued, and the negotiations in place already?

Look at the people in Congress who have taken up support of Ukraine and compare to who was imposing mandates and shutting down businesses. I don't think we are getting the full story and following the money would be advised.
 
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A Grateful American
Picture of sigmonkey
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quote:
Originally posted by Tirod:... American sponsored bio labs doing work in the Ukraine ...


Credible proof?




"the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" Ani Yehudi אני יהודי Le'olam lo shuv לעולם לא שוב!
 
Posts: 44689 | Location: ...... I am thrice divorced, and I live in a van DOWN BY THE RIVER!!! (in Arkansas) | Registered: December 20, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
Picture of Skins2881
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quote:
Originally posted by sigmonkey:
quote:
Originally posted by Tirod:... American sponsored bio labs doing work in the Ukraine ...


Credible proof?


Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin



Jesse

Sic Semper Tyrannis
 
Posts: 21336 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Staring back
from the abyss
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Росомахи!


________________________________________________________
"Great danger lies in the notion that we can reason with evil." Doug Patton.
 
Posts: 21000 | Location: Montana | Registered: November 01, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Captain Morgan:
It would be great if Poland invades Belarus and that little piece of land to the north of Poland.
Putin would have a fit.

So it not ok to invade Ukrainian but ok to invade Belarus?
 
Posts: 1195 | Location: Upstate  | Registered: January 11, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
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quote:
Originally posted by scsigs:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Morgan:
It would be great if Poland invades Belarus and that little piece of land to the north of Poland.
Putin would have a fit.

So it not ok to invade Ukrainian but ok to invade Belarus?


These determinations depend on context.


For example, during WW2 it was not ok for Germany to invade Poland/France/Denmark/Belgium/Holland/Norway/Yugoslavia/Greece/Russia/et al.

But it was ok for the Allies to invade Germany in response.


In this case, Russia and Belarus started an illegitimate war of aggression by invading Ukraine. That is not ok.

But if the war were to expand to include NATO countries coming to the active defense of Ukraine, it would be ok for NATO to invade Kaliningrad and Belarus as part of that aim of stopping Belarussian/Russian aggression, freeing Ukraine, ending the war, and restoring stability.
 
Posts: 33437 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
These determinations depend on context.


Obviously—one would think. Roll Eyes

Hardly different than someone's breaking into a house and shooting the occupant versus the occupant shooting the invader.




“I don’t want some ‘gun nut’ training my officers [about firearms].”
— Unidentified chief of an American police department.

“I can’t give you brains, but I can give you a diploma.”
— The Wizard of Oz

This life is a drill. It is only a drill. If it had been a real life, you would have been given instructions about where to go and what to do.
 
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