Numbers are too low. Let’s work on that guys.

If there are 8.1 billion rounds Mfg. how many are hand loaded?

Cheerful news for a change.

According to the FBI UCR for 2108 there were less than 300 deaths attributed to all rifles. (297).

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-t...ide-data-table-8.xls

quote:

Originally posted by sjtill:
18 million “Modern Sporting Rifles” in circulation, and <400 deaths related to rifles of all kinds each year? Safer than cars and swimming pools, maybe ladders....

I recall reading some time back that there were more than 600 million guns in the hands of the public, not counting LEO and military. And that estimate was considered to be low.

Don't recall where I read it, but will see if my aging memory can figure it out.

Edited to add:

https://bearingarms.com/jenn-j...firearms-in-america/

And they seem to say that their numbers are really too low.

Will keep looking

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
Numbers are too low. Let’s work on that guys.

Well, I'm doing my part. I have about 80 various firearms.

flashguy

Two more on the way for me!

I'm not old enough to remember but when buying a long gun 40+ years ago did it have to be registered?

If not then that number is probably way low.

quote:

Originally posted by 1s1k:
I'm not old enough to remember but when buying a long gun 40+ years ago did it have to be registered?

If not then that number is probably way low.

Registration? There's no registration of anything, federally, unless it's NFA stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

Originally posted by 1s1k:
I'm not old enough to remember but when buying a long gun 40+ years ago did it have to be registered?

If not then that number is probably way low.

Registration? There's no registration of anything, federally, unless it's NFA stuff.

No OFFICIAL registration anyway. Every gun sale through an FFL has tracking information attached to it. And now with the electronic form 4473 system in place, I have ZERO trust that that information isn’t automatically being entered into a database somewhere. ZERO.

Man, I really need to invest in Reynolds Wrap.

A friend of mine says that if you can not put numbers to it then it's voodoo. I know that 422.9 million is a number, but how accurate that number is, highly suspect. Now the 8.1 billion rounds of ammo manufactured, that can be very close to correct. Of course, it does not take into account hand loading.
I take great joy in a report like this causing liberal heads to explode, but other than that, I'm not sure of the real value.
Rod

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Man, I really need to invest in Reynolds Wrap.

Yeah, because we know we can trust the government, right? They'd never do something like keep records they said they were going to destroy. That would be lying, and lying is wrong, and America is always right.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Man, I really need to invest in Reynolds Wrap.

I’ll give you an example and let you decide. I sold a pistol I had purchased through an FFL previously at a gun show in VA in about 1995. Guy had a VA drivers license, so cash changed hands. Nor was there an exchange of information of any kind. Fast forward to 2000. Out of the blue, I get a phone call from the New York State police. It seems either the guy that bought my gun, or someone he passed it to was found in illegal possession of same.

How do you suppose they came by the information? Yes, the ATF can track gun sales years after the fact through FFL paperwork. Do you trust the government? I work for them and can say no, I do not. If a gun can be traced in such a manner, it most certainly can be registered somewhere against your knowledge. And that was in 1995. Before the Swiss cheese security of the internet.

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:
I’ll give you an example and let you decide. I sold a pistol I had purchased through an FFL previously

If you purchased it from an FFL, the FFL must maintain 4473s for 20 years I believe. So...Gun manufacturer sent gun to Distributor who sent gun to Dealer who sold the gun to you and that info is kept in the store. And the trace ends with you because you sold it w/out any other info.

Working in the Evidence Room, I run firearm traces several times a week.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Orndorff:

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:
I’ll give you an example and let you decide. I sold a pistol I had purchased through an FFL previously

If you purchased it from an FFL, the FFL must maintain 4473s for 20 years I believe. So...Gun manufacturer sent gun to Distributor who sent gun to Dealer who sold the gun to you and that info is kept in the store. And the trace ends with you because you sold it w/out any other info.

Working in the Evidence Room, I run firearm traces several times a week.

The trace ends with the boating accident.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Orndorff:

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:
I’ll give you an example and let you decide. I sold a pistol I had purchased through an FFL previously

If you purchased it from an FFL, the FFL must maintain 4473s for 20 years I believe. So...Gun manufacturer sent gun to Distributor who sent gun to Dealer who sold the gun to you and that info is kept in the store. And the trace ends with you because you sold it w/out any other info.

Working in the Evidence Room, I run firearm traces several times a week.

That’s all well and good, but given the shenanigans engaged by the previous administration and the ATF under their direction, does it garner warm feelings of trust that adherence to procedure is inviolate in you? It does not in me.

Nope. I don’t trust the government. At that same time, my distrust of the government doesn’t cause me to see a conspiracy behind everything.

Tracing guns to the owner has been going on since there have been record keeping. Your 4473 wasn’t in some government database. Some cop went to the gun shop you bought it from and requested to see the 4473.

I work for the government too. I see a bunch of stuff that is ripe for abuse. This isn’t one of them.

quote:

Originally posted by flashguy:

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

Firearms-ammunition manufacturing accounted for nearly 12,000 employees

Surprised at this number. I'd have thought it much higher.

Lots of machines. . . .

flashguy

And Temps, probably.

The ATF knows how many guns have been manufactured and imported for the last several decades. They may not know from before the reporting requirements were put in place, but they may have some ideas, and I don't think it would be a large percentage of the total anyway.

I think the big questions would be disposals. Guns can last a long time, but a certain number get destroyed or lost every year (lost in this case meaning lost to anyone, not lost/stolen by one person and ending up in someone else's hands.) That number they may not have a good source for.

quote:

Originally posted by sig sailor:
A friend of mine says that if you can not put numbers to it then it's voodoo. I know that 422.9 million is a number, but how accurate that number is, highly suspect. Now the 8.1 billion rounds of ammo manufactured, that can be very close to correct. Of course, it does not take into account hand loading.
I take great joy in a report like this causing liberal heads to explode, but other than that, I'm not sure of the real value.
Rod