quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
Whoever controls the Federal Government, meaning controls the armed forces, will win the war. This isn't 1863.

I would have to disagree with that at least somewhat. A coup could very easily be accomplished by taking out a significant number of the members of Congress. It wouldn’t necessarily ensure a successful coup, but it could absolutely work. The other thing to consider is that there’s no guarantee that military stationed in opposing states would side with the federal government if things got bad enough. In reality, the only thing that I’m willing to say is that there is very good reason for everyone in the US to come to some consensus on how we are willing to live and be governed because if things continue to degrade it will be bad for EVERYONE.

My congressman Adam Kidzinger responded to that tonight “they tried that in 1860 and President Lincoln said NO”.

We’ve since signed into the UN. Part of that is the right of people to “self-determine.”

Now, Spain’s been oppressing Catalonia, and blocking that, so I guess no one takes it seriously, but, de jure, any state would have the right to leave.

(They, frankly, always did. The whole American political philosophy is against holding citizens against their will - the travesty of an exit tax, not withstanding.)

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

Originally posted by oddball:
Today is not the past. We live in different times now.

Yes. These are different times.
... a division of the country becomes nearly inevitable.

The only alternative would be for them to eliminate us, or for us to eliminate them.

If you look at the entire country, from a political perspective, red and blue, it looks like this:

A civil war is inevitable but improbable.
It isn't like the past where there were physical territories.
It is kind of hard to fight when it's your next door neighbor that's the commie socialist pig.
We are in for some tough times ahead.

Texas GOP chair calls for 'union of states' and the left has a cow

After the Supreme Court refused to even hear the great Texas-plus-18-states request for legal relief on participating in a clearly fraud-tainted national election, a pall descended on a lot of the U.S.

The chairman of the Texas GOP suggested this as a post-legal-shutout remedy:

"The Supreme Court, in tossing the Texas lawsuit that was joined by seventeen states and 106 US congressman, has decreed that a state can take unconstitutional actions and violate its own election law. Resulting in damaging effects on other states that abide by the law, while the guilty state suffers no consequences. This decision establishes a precedent that says states can violate the US constitution and not be held accountable. This decision will have far-reaching ramifications for the future of our constitutional republic. Perhaps law-abiding states should bond together and form a Union of states that will abide by the constitution.”


Which of course the left read as a thinly veiled call for secession. Here's The Hill's jump-to-conclusions headline:

Texas GOP chair floats secession for 'law-abiding states' after Supreme Court defeat

Here's the screech of the Daily Mail:

Republicans rage! Texas GOP chairman calls for secession, Diamond and Silk demand military intervention, and Rudy Giuliani fumes that it's 'censorship' after the Supreme Court refuses to hear a case to throw out millions of votes

Here's the Daily Beast:

Texas GOP Throws Tantrum Over SCOTUS Ruling and Floats Secession for ‘Law-Abiding States’

Which is crap, on multiple fronts.

First, Texas is the one state in the union that actually does have the right to secede, it was embedded in its agreement to enter the union. So let's not have a cow about any talk like that coming from Allen West. If one state can do it, so can many, and never mind the Civil War, because let's face it, the Supreme Court has effectively ruled that how states run their affairs doesn't matter anymore and no one has 'standing' except for them. The Court has opened the gates to secession themselves by their refusal to grant Texas and its 18 allied states so much as a chance to plead their case. The refusal to hear sends the message that anything goes in the states.

And spare us the allusions to the Confederacy, a Democrat-led secession movement, as many leftist Twitterati are doing. West, as it happens, is Black, and Texas was the state where Juneteenth was first celebrated, quite possibly by West's ancestors. This is no Confederate thing.

The most annoying thing about this, though, is that West didn't call for secession. He made a call for a "union of states," as in, club. Far from being secession, this is what is known as civil society. It makes sense actually, because states have been denied legal relief and told they're to be forced into participating in fraudulent elections as determined by four corruption-infested blue cities. Legal remedies have been nixed and conservatives have now been shut out.

Instead of stewing about it, the Texas GOP is proposing some other kind of action, a natural move actually. It's gathering its friends among states and calling for them to put their heads together. People with common interests, in this case, following the Constitution, have always gathered in constitutionally guaranteed associations, Alexis de Tocqueville wrote all about it, and it's right there in the First Amendment.

Sure, something like a 'union of states' could grow into something more forceful (this is why tyrants are always trying to stomp out freedom of association), but that's not what's being called for now, nor is it being threatened. Civil society groups exist to talk things over, to put ideas together, to create fellowship, and create proposed solutions, and then move to influence society further. The idea here is to make things better and use the multiplier effect of many entities acting as one.

Nobody's threatening secession for seeking to form a 'union of states.' What West is proposing now is talking it over as a group so that no secretive Antifa-style thugcraft from embittered Republicans, feeling disenfranchised by all the voter fraud in four socialist one-party-city hellholes, is what follows. Human beings always form associations based on common interest. Antifa operates in secret because its aims are illegally violent and chaotic. A union of states is precisely the opposite. West may well be onto something because what this country needs is relief from fraud-tainted elections.

https://www.americanthinker.co..._left_has_a_cow.html

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
Whoever controls the Federal Government, meaning controls the armed forces, will win the war. This isn't 1863.

Tell that to the Taliban and the VC.

How many of the armed forces will blindly follow orders to fire on fellow Americans?

And, how many Americans are former military with experience and are already trained?

From data a couple years ago, there are at least 600 million firearms in the USA, and 60 million firearms owners. If only half of the firearms owners decide to fight, that is 30 million. No army on the planet can deal with that.

Consider a military unit trying to drive a small group of people out of the mountains and forests of huge areas in this country. Snipers shooting from several hundred yards and in wooded areas etc.

quote:

Originally posted by midwest guy:
My congressman Adam Kidzinger responded to that tonight “they tried that in 1860 and President Lincoln said NO”.

......And Lincoln was WRONG. The states had, and still have a right to withdraw.

I'd like to see the states that joined the lawsuit join together and say DJT was re elected as our president. We recognize him as the President and no other. Trump can then leave Washington DC for a new capitol within the free states. Those free states will govern themselves according to the U.S. Constitution and will no longer associate themselves with the communist states of America.

quote:

Originally posted by tleo205:

quote:

Originally posted by midwest guy:
My congressman Adam Kidzinger responded to that tonight “they tried that in 1860 and President Lincoln said NO”.

......And Lincoln was WRONG. The states had, and still have a right to withdraw.

Well they did have a right and they did secede. However, that new confederacy was then conquered by what turned out to be a superior military effort on the part of the union. Arguing over who had the right to do what is essentially a matter of semantics. In practical terms, when there was a disagreement that could not be settled and resulted in the use of force, the victorious side was the side that fought better as has happened countless times throughout human history.

quote:

Originally posted by Lt CHEG:
Well they did have a right and they did secede. However, that new confederacy was then conquered by what turned out to be a superior military effort on the part of the union. Arguing over who had the right to do what is essentially a matter of semantics. In practical terms, when there was a disagreement that could not be settled and resulted in the use of force, the victorious side was the side that fought better as has happened countless times throughout human history.

Reminds me of a bit in the book Taipan. It has been a long time (decades) but the Japanese leader who has captured the protagonist and his men asks wasn’t it treason to rebel against your country (Portugal leaving the union with Spain). His response was something along the lines of, “Only if you lose.”

History is indeed written by the victors. Ours could well get rewritten by the GDCs if they have their way, but I’m not making any bets on that. Time will tell.

quote:

History is indeed written by the victors. Ours could well get rewritten by the GDCs if they have their way, but I’m not making any bets on that. Time will tell.

True. There are historical facts which may or may not be widely known or taught. But the facts are always colored by interpretation and opinion. History is often told as a story and a good story teller always slips in a lesson for the future.

I'm a patriot and pro-Texas and all, but I don't ever see a secession ever happening. The pullout of the US forces and other huge federal monies would devastate many communities.

Also, and just like Israel whose Arab population is out-babying the Jews there, the changing demographics here will not go for it.

We are literally doomed because we are allowing this to happen to us without a fight other than voting, bitching and complaining. As you can see, that doesn't get us anywhere. Our future is already written since it is a copy of the fall of Europe.

Not getting into the economics of it, but pretty well every state would be better off out of the US, so long as it could still be a NATO/WTO member.

Same economic pressure on the EU. Neither Federal government serves much of a purpose, anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by ftttu:
We are literally doomed because we are allowing this to happen to us without a fight other than voting, bitching and complaining. As you can see, that doesn't get us anywhere. Our future is already written since it is a copy of the fall of Europe.

You could be right, but I sure hope you’re wrong. Time will tell.

If the dims add states (DC,PR), make new states. Start with Illinois, separate Chicago. Works in Calif, Mich, Penn, Ga, all over. Let these toxic urban areas prove how essential they are on their own. Make it a requirement for any "state" to demonstrate some self-sufficiency, something beyond a holding area for people.

quote:

Originally posted by coloradohunter44:
Guess I'll be moving down near my son. Pretty much had it with Commierado anyway.

C'mon dude! Polis needs your support now that the "First Man" has the COVID!

i wish it would it kick off asap

Read up on the "Texas vs. White" decision. SCOTUS declared that Texas entered into an "indissoluble union" when it joined the United States.

flashguy

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

Originally posted by oddball:
Today is not the past. We live in different times now.

Yes. These are different times.
... a division of the country becomes nearly inevitable.

The only alternative would be for them to eliminate us, or for us to eliminate them.

If you look at the entire country, from a political perspective, red and blue, it looks like this:

A civil war is inevitable but improbable.
It isn't like the past where there were physical territories.
It is kind of hard to fight when it's your next door neighbor that's the commie socialist pig.
We are in for some tough times ahead.

Something is off with that map. It looks like a fake news pollster’s map. No way in hell Tennessee is that blue. Also, OK had NO blue.

TN Presidential results.