A couple times a week I’m wide awake at 0230 or so. As in, get up and do something with no lingering sleepiness or feeling tired. Sleep won’t happen but I toss and turn trying and many time do fall asleep but only about 20minutes before the alarm. Then I am tired and sleepy and it’s rough.

So I’m thinking, I may as well embrace it. I need something low key to do but still engaging. Reading isn’t it, as that isn’t engaging enough and I get groggy. Reloading is out as I don’t think it’s best to do stuff like that when mistakes are likely to happen. I’ve pretty much given up on feeling rested. A few times a year when I manage to sleep though until 7-8 or so, sometimes as earlier as sunrise, I do okay.

Usually in bed and lights out about 9pm.

Pills don’t work because they make it crazy hard to wake up, bad dreams(Ambien) or other side effect and it can’t be a controlled substance. Melatonin doesn’t help. Tested for sleep Apnea, barely registered and it brings its own issues of trying to sleep with crap on my face and the noise. Running white noise stuff, earplugs, etc. All the things and methods. The recliner, whiskey and having zero alcohol for months not a big drinker. Eating early, eating light, snaking.

Thoughts, suggestions?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Riley,

Is you goal to get back to sleep or stay up all night? IMO, your goal should be to get back to sleep. If you goal is to stay up, then, well, skip to the next response. With that:

1) Stop eating after 8pm.
2) Figure out your caffeine intake and possibly get it under control. I was having the same issue as you for years and it wore on me. Turned out to be caffeine.
3) Exercise

To get back to sleep, you need to preoccupy your mind with boring or mundane interactions.

1) I used books on tape that ppl loaded onto youtube.
2) Other options were to find ASMR type videos. People mock it but it works for me. It forces me to listen to the sounds and not to start trying to solve my daily work. Eventually my mind relents and settles in to sleep.
3) Something I've also used is classical music. Finding the right soft music and trying to focus on instruments helped
4) All else fails, try white noise.

Getting back to a full-nights sleep has been a blessing. Try to solve the problem, not accept it. Sleep is key to good health.

Good luck.

If you get groggy while reading, maybe that IS it...

9:00 PM is entirely too early for adults to be in bed. This is the hour people put children to bed. You need to be up, ending your day on Sig Forum. Making high quality glossy photos of pistols, having them ready to post up for us to enjoy. I suggest staying up a little later at night. Time was if I couldnt stay asleep in a comfy bed for the whole night, I'd grab a pillow and blanket, head for my recliner chair and finish my sleep hours.

I get up between 3-4 every day. Sometimes earlier. The early morning is a godly time for me. Prayers and good thoughts.

I love on the dogs for a while, grab a heavy sweater and sit on the porch w a cigar and a hot cup of joe.

I read SF and whatnot. I go to bed at 9 generally.

I don’t freak out at being up early, as there is little consequence to my day for getting up at that hour.

I’m similar to the OP. When I wake up in the middle of the night, I’m awake for a good long time.

I recently watched a series on “better sleep” that was available on the entertainment system of an airline.

One of the more useful tips on how to fall back asleep is to NOT lie there tossing and turning in bed. The sleep expert in the video said “you need to strictly associate your bed with sleep. If you’re awake and realize you won’t immediately fall back into sleep… get out of bed, do something to lightly occupy your mind until you feel drowsy… then return to bed and fall asleep again.”

Oddly enough, this works for me. Instead of 90 minutes of unwanted wakefulness… this strategy cuts it down to 25-30 minutes.

YMMV.

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
If you get groggy while reading, maybe that IS it...

Bingo. That's what I do. I have a book going all the time.

I go in another room and start listening to a podcast.

I go to bed ~8:30pm. My alarm clock is set for 4:30am. If I get up to piss, and sleep doesn’t return when I go back to bed, I just lay there comfy. Seems to be almost as good as actual sleep.

I try to keep my mind quiet, but it usually tries to optimize one of my computer programs.

You are going to bed too early IMO

As you age, you need less sleep or it’s been my experience. 7 hours for me is perfect, anything over that and my back starts to hurt.


Did you know that the concept of going to bed and sleeping eight hours straight through is a relatively new thing apparently? It seems to have come with the industrial revolution, before that people would sleep, more or less in shifts, there’s old writings from the middle ages all the way up until the 1700’s-1800’s of people going to bed at like 8- midnight, then getting up for a couple hours and doing stuff then going back to bed for a few more hours until dawn.


The forgotten medieval habit of 'two sleeps'

Wake up is at 4am and I’m trashed by 7-8pm.

See a sleep specialist. They are usually pulmonologists or psychologists. You have failed the usual treatments and need further evaluation and care. You may need to go to a major academic medical center.

Eschew caffeine. That worked for me.

I tell myself to "come in for a landing" and try to focus on pleasant or serene things, and pray.

For me, it’s no food after 6PM, and going to bed as soon as I feel tired. Some days, that’s 7PM - usually it’s around 8-830.

I naturally prefer to be up about when the sky starts to gray a bit in the morning.

I’ll defer to our house doctor, ZSMICHAEL but I will also add no caffeine after noon, a good workout in the morning if possible, no food after 7 pm and pushing your bedtime back 1/2 to 1 hour.

I have had bouts of insomnia usually waking up around 3 am and it is a struggle. Good luck and let us know what works.

Turn on the Robert Miles Dreamland album on very low.
This album puts me right back to sleep.

I had been playing lullabies to get my little ones to sleep at night. I have now switched to Robert Miles Dreamland and they are out faster and sleep much longer.
I
Could also add taking some Valerian Root in there.

The above is all good advice. I'd like to add, get a sleep study. I found that I needed a CPAP. A world of difference with the quality of sleep!

I read on a Kindle Oasis. I read before I fall asleep and then stuff the thing under my pillow. I can pull it our, like I did at 3 last night and read for 10-15 minutes and I fall back asleep. The Oasis allows me to cut out the blue light also.
Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Riley:
Reading isn’t it, as that isn’t engaging enough and I get groggy.

That's a clue that's exactly it.

I suspect the problem, though you may not recognize it, is your brain is working overtime. You wake up and your brain starts doing things. Thinking about things. Getting busy. It could be something as seemingly inconsequential as an earworm (music you that just keeps replaying over and over again in your head).

BTDT.

Took me a long time to figure out how to fix the problem.

What finally cured the problem for me is I guess what you could call a "mantra." By "mantra" I mean a word or phrase you repeat in your mind over and over again--displacing all other thought.

Ever since I figured that out I've had maybe two, three nights it didn't work quickly and one night it didn't work at all. On that one night I got up and read. Had to read for 2-1/2 hours before I got sleepy again.