OttoSig I'm sorry to hear this. We are in the same boat. Our daughter first started out by telling us she was asexual. Okay, I suppose a father could hear much worse things. We tried the therapy business. She has gone on to the full blown trans thing. I was told as long as I tried things would be good, but one thing I couldn't get the hang of was the pronouns thing. If not he, they would suffice. Never could get the hang of using something grammatically incorrect. She insisted on a name change which both my wife and I agreed. Which really killed me because she was named after my mother. She recently cut ties with us. She had a big blow up at Christmas that was aimed at me, but recently she did the same with the wife. She did so in an angry and selfish text that in no way my wife deserved. All we can do is wait and hope.

Now I am 64 years old. I'm completely aware that there are some roads I'm just not meant to walk upon, and in no way can I ever understand. In those situations I'm content to keep my mouth shut. I was completely disarmed by having a daughter. But, I can't help but observing there is no room for seeing things differently where she is concerned. I'm expected to knuckle under completely or she is prepared to remove herself from the family equation in which she stated she wont feel safe under those conditions. That offends me deeply. Family should get the extra mile. The benefit of the doubt. Its the nature of the institution. Its what I afford her. Not with her ideology. Her anger and victimhood mentality is astonishing. I just don't know how I'm going salvage this situation.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: goose5,

Goose, I am so sorry to read this. I hate keywords, but I’m about to use a few of the new ones.
This is definitely a situation where there are personalities that will be easily “triggered” or look for things to be offended by - that was the way with my son’s friend. I cannot imagine walking that tightrope as a parent. So many kids are sensitized and told that there are many microaggressions out there to watch for, and to react to.

I have a sister that seems to be constantly looking for things to be offended by when we have conversations. God forbid there’s a person of color or there’s a different sexual orientation of the person being discussed in the conversation. Then I always have to preface it with “It’s not because of this.” So many people assume. I had a childhood friend once that I lost. She thinks it’s because she’s a lesbian. It was because she was dating an absolute piece of shit of a human that I could not bear to be around, but my “friend” never stuck around for the explanation. She just assumed I had an issue with her being gay, and leaned into the idea that I’m homophobic.

Give your wife my best. For parents to have raised a child with all the love, hopes, and dreams, and to have them completely misconstrue all of that effort and love, that’s heartbreaking. I hope she recognizes this at some point. Sometimes people never do, sometimes they realize after they have children. Then they start realizing the sacrifice.

What brought me back to this thread was remembering a simple line from series that I loved: “I like the wine, not the label.”
I mean it in the context of the father speaking to the daughter (which is not how the line was delivered), but for Otto to say to his daughter - that he doesn’t care, whatever she decides - he will still love her and support her. That’s all she really needs.
But maybe you could turn it around and use it for your child- after all, what difference does it make if you call them he or they or she? It really is the wine you love, not the label. And trust me, your child will have seen the tv series this relates to. One of the lead characters is pansexual. Put the ball back in her court and show her what a hypocrite she’s being.

A tough spot, but it sounds like you are doing the best you can with what you have to work with.

As others have suggested, 8 year olds are clueless and experimenting with all sorts of "fit", as they sometimes do well into teens or beyond. Not just sexual, but in all things.

Your patience is admirable and I bet will pay off in a long term good relationship no matter what direction she ultimately goes in this or other matters.

Otto..hang in there, you’re handling this better than you think. We have a 14yo daughter that is going through *severe* depression, has been for months. There’s not a rock we haven’t looked under or a dollar we haven’t spent trying to help her. Different problem, but tough times as dad I understand. Vent all you want here, I think we can handle it!

And then what astronaut , teacher ? Actor ?

Otto, first of all I think your based approach to this is solid. You're doing the right things.

I agree with others here about the tomboy thing. My wife grew up on the streets of Tijuana doing "boy things". Riding bikes, playing soccer, wearing tshirts and baseball caps...all that stuff. I didn't know her then but I've seen the pictures. That didn't make her a boy...far from it. But she did grow up with a lot of natural beauty and without a lot of the high maintenance "girly girl" BS, and as her husband I greatly appreciate that! All that to say, I don't think it's unnatural at all for a girl to want to do "boy" activities, or maybe even dress like one, especially at that age.

I think the thing that makes it tougher these days is the increased emphasis on sexuality. When I was growing up I don't think I even started to think about that stuff until I was 12 or 13. Some of that was probably due to the way my parents raised me...they were kinda over the top and didn't even want us dating in high school, so I had secret girlfriends as I got older...but I don't really recall my friends being into that sort of stuff at that age either. We just rode our bikes, built forts, climbed trees, dammed up creeks, set stuff on fire...good wholesome boy stuff. We didn't care about girls.

The idea that 8 year olds are flirting or expressing attraction to other kids is sort of puzzling to me. Maybe girls get there before boys. When I was that age there was a girl in school that had a crush on me and I did everything I could to avoid her. The interest just wasn't there at that point.

My kids are all older than that now, but sexual attraction wasn't a thing with any of them at that age either. They're homeschooled, so they have fewer outside influences...maybe it would be different if that wasn't the case. If that's a normal thing with kids that age now, I can definitely see how it could be tough for a kid who's a tomboy to separate the stuff she likes to do from who she is as a person. That's a lot for a kid that age to process or understand, especially if people are telling her that since she likes doing boy things or wearing boy clothes she must actually be a boy.

If I were in your shoes I'd keep doing what you're doing. It sounds like you're having good honest conversations with her and providing solid guidance as a parent. And you're aware of what she's going through and you're listening to her. That's important.

As for suggestions...maybe try to discourage the flirting or boyfriend/girlfriend thing as much as possible at this age and just focus on having friends. She just moved halfway across the country, so this is also going to shake up her world quite a bit, and her social circle is going to have to get rebuilt. You have an opportunity here to hopefully vet some of those new relationships and surround her with good people and influences. Take advantage of that as much as you can. Outside of school an 8 year-old is only hanging out with the people you let her hang out with, so you have a lot of input there. I'm not sure if your kids have access to social media or not...if they do I'd be monitoring what they're seeing on there as well. There's so much stuff out there that an 8 year-old kid just can't be expected to understand and process appropriately.

Like others, I'd be wary of therapy or psychologists. One, I'm not sure she needs it, and two I don't really trust their motives or their "science". That discipline has been heavily compromised by wokeism, and unless you know exactly what your provider believes they could be making things worse.

I'm definitely no expert. Parenting is tough and you only get one crack at it per kid, and each one is different so there's no real roadmap or formula. Being attentive to what they're going through and trying to help guide them through it is about all you can do, and it sounds like you're very much on top of that.

Update in OP.

^^^^ Looks like normal things ironing out on their own. Mrs Q was a tomboy, when she was a kid. So…

I'm glad that's all worked as we'd expected.

I'm happy with you for the outcome.

She could very well be just part of the numbers. I don't know what they call the phenomenon. I heard it in a segment like sometime back in the 80s, I think? There was a town where children were talking about satanic rituals being performed and the number of children reporting such shot up exponentially. in the end, the adults were innocent and the kids appeared to have jumped on the bandwagon.

very happy with the update - best possible answer

Well done for never wavering in support of your kids. Thanks for sharing this, really, this took guts.

quote:

Originally posted by Timdogg6:
Well done for never wavering in support of your kids. Thanks for sharing this, really, this took guts.

Agreed.

Kids change. Who knew?

Yet again, patience proves to be the most valuable parental asset.

Should someone tell Ottosig how as she gets up in teenage years, he'll become dumb as a rock and an embarassment and when she's 24, he'll invariably have grown smarter by then?

The news is good to hear.
My wife was a tomboy as well. My daughter wants to be a welder and that doesn't make her a lesbian.

Explaining it is one thing and a child in 3rd grade has not undergone puberty and the changes that hormones will impart.

Hormones are incredibly powerful and drive a lot of feelings of attraction, sexual attraction.

You’ve been handling it well so far and this may just be a phase, but she is not going to be wired the same way in 4-5 years.

If she wants to do boy things, great… that’s not an indicator of alignment at this stage.

Besides, it’s fun being a boy!

Wishing you all the best.

Billy

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
Update:

She apparently had a “boyfriend” in her 3rd grade class. He gives her a note every morning telling her she’s nice. Nothing changed externally, she still looks the part of a tomboy. But she’s now 100% against liking girls. Happened basically overnight.

This should be a case study against the stupid people who wanted us to put her in counseling to traverse her “transition” at 5 years old. Dumbasses.


OP:
First off, do not respond with any stupid political, insensitive or insulting shit towards my daughter. Internet or not.

NOW, my 8 year old twins couldn't be any different. One is a prissy pink-loving little girl who wants long hair and dresses. She always talks about boys she likes in school, she's a flirter. She's gonna be trouble later in life for sure.

Her twin, since she could talk and make decisions, has always leaned towards BEING a boy. It's actually been pretty educating for me. It's been 6 years of wanting short hair, no "girly colors", no dresses, no girl games. She's what I would call committed.

She tells me she's attracted to girls instead of boys. She wanted a boy haircut this year so I said, "whatever makes you happy kid". She tells me nearly everyday that kids at school ask her what she is or make fun of her for being a girl when she looks like a boy.

Me and my wife are not silly, we tell her God made her a girl and she can never BE a boy. But if she wants to act like a boy and do boy things she can do whatever she wants, in that regard.

Well today she tells me she winked at a girl at lunch because she thought she was cute. I told her we don't do that, we don't go to school to flirt or do things like that. We go to school to learn and do what our teacher says. All the TRUE responses I could think of.

I have 4 daughters. Winking is something I taught them. My youngest winks at me every morning when her line is walking into class from drop off. It's like our, "I love you". So I get where she learned it from, she actually applied it correctly in her defense.

The problem came when all her girl friends, who she admitted, "are not mean at all", quickly pointed out, "She is a girl and not a boy". She doesn't understand that.

I told her some kids won't understand that you want to be a boy but you're a girl. They aren't being mean, they are just pointing out what they are seeing. You ARE a girl and little kids don't understand boys liking boys or girls liking girls. I think she gets it, or maybe she just placates me in nodding. I don't know for sure.

The main thing I'm saying is, I don't know how to explain it to her. It's as if I am the 8 year old, who is old school but loves my daughter. And she is trying to gain knowledge from me. I DO believe that some are born a certain way after witnessing her growth. She MAY change her mind and thoughts in time, and its okay if she does or doesn't. I just wish I could better help her understand that she faces a bit of a struggle based off what she thinks and wants. I don't quite know how to explain that to an 8 year old.

As an aside, her twin, sitting at the table beside her at lunch today during all this, leaned over and said, "She is a girl, but wants to be a boy. That's it so leave her alone". THAT made me proud. And she is Latina so she would probably follow up with a capri sun straw to the throat.

There is no real question in this thread. I just don't know how to handle it and I consider myself a pretty intelligent person. It's tough not knowing the answer. It's worse not knowing the answer for your kid.