Update:

She apparently had a “boyfriend” in her 3rd grade class. He gives her a note every morning telling her she’s nice. Nothing changed externally, she still looks the part of a tomboy. But she’s now 100% against liking girls. Happened basically overnight.

This should be a case study against the stupid people who wanted us to put her in counseling to traverse her “transition” at 5 years old. Dumbasses.


OP:
First off, do not respond with any stupid political, insensitive or insulting shit towards my daughter. Internet or not.

NOW, my 8 year old twins couldn't be any different. One is a prissy pink-loving little girl who wants long hair and dresses. She always talks about boys she likes in school, she's a flirter. She's gonna be trouble later in life for sure.

Her twin, since she could talk and make decisions, has always leaned towards BEING a boy. It's actually been pretty educating for me. It's been 6 years of wanting short hair, no "girly colors", no dresses, no girl games. She's what I would call committed.

She tells me she's attracted to girls instead of boys. She wanted a boy haircut this year so I said, "whatever makes you happy kid". She tells me nearly everyday that kids at school ask her what she is or make fun of her for being a girl when she looks like a boy.

Me and my wife are not silly, we tell her God made her a girl and she can never BE a boy. But if she wants to act like a boy and do boy things she can do whatever she wants, in that regard.

Well today she tells me she winked at a girl at lunch because she thought she was cute. I told her we don't do that, we don't go to school to flirt or do things like that. We go to school to learn and do what our teacher says. All the TRUE responses I could think of.

I have 4 daughters. Winking is something I taught them. My youngest winks at me every morning when her line is walking into class from drop off. It's like our, "I love you". So I get where she learned it from, she actually applied it correctly in her defense.

The problem came when all her girl friends, who she admitted, "are not mean at all", quickly pointed out, "She is a girl and not a boy". She doesn't understand that.

I told her some kids won't understand that you want to be a boy but you're a girl. They aren't being mean, they are just pointing out what they are seeing. You ARE a girl and little kids don't understand boys liking boys or girls liking girls. I think she gets it, or maybe she just placates me in nodding. I don't know for sure.

The main thing I'm saying is, I don't know how to explain it to her. It's as if I am the 8 year old, who is old school but loves my daughter. And she is trying to gain knowledge from me. I DO believe that some are born a certain way after witnessing her growth. She MAY change her mind and thoughts in time, and its okay if she does or doesn't. I just wish I could better help her understand that she faces a bit of a struggle based off what she thinks and wants. I don't quite know how to explain that to an 8 year old.

As an aside, her twin, sitting at the table beside her at lunch today during all this, leaned over and said, "She is a girl, but wants to be a boy. That's it so leave her alone". THAT made me proud. And she is Latina so she would probably follow up with a capri sun straw to the throat.

There is no real question in this thread. I just don't know how to handle it and I consider myself a pretty intelligent person. It's tough not knowing the answer. It's worse not knowing the answer for your kid.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: OttoSig,

Do you think this is a genuine desire or a way to be different and stand out?

Make an appointment for YOURSELF with a competent clinical psychologist to discuss the matter. Most though not all have significant expertise in this area.Believe me this is not an area for amateurs.

First off, I have no children so I can’t even put myself in your shoes but it seems to me you are doing pretty good. That is great she is comfortable to speak with you about things.

My opinion is you can’t and shouldn’t try to change how someone feels, what they want to do, or who they are attracted to unless any of those are illegal. Obviously a little more complicated with her age. It might be a phase or it might be real; that is for her to determine. I would just be there, as it seems you are, as a support without pushing one way or the other.

I think you got this covered.

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
Do you think this is a genuine desire or a way to be different and stand out?

I sincerely think it’s genuine. She’s quite “simple” in her thinking. That’s a nice way of saying what you know I’m saying. Nothing she does is for reaction or ulterior motives.

If I asked my 5 year old if she wanted ice cream. The conviction with which she answers is the same way the kid feels about it.

All the while my wife and I have told the school, “she’s a girl, she will not use the boys bathroom, call her whatever the fuck she wants to be called but we are not entering transgender conversation with a child that can’t understand 2nd grade math fully”. And yes, we’ve been called to the school more than once because they had “concerns”.

I don’t mean to sound aggressive. I truly don’t. We’re not from San Fran or pretend to be. I just want her to be happy and the older she gets the more confusing it is for her as kids and HER mostly don’t know how to process and deal with it.

I don’t know if I made it sound like other kids are doing anything wrong. They are not. They are just being kids. This post was about me and her navigating this.

That was a lot to respond to your post Nhtag, not all directed at your question. Just thoughts coming up as I type about it sitting here.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
Make an appointment for YOURSELF with a competent clinical psychologist to discuss the matter. Most though not all have significant expertise in this area.Believe me this is not an area for amateurs.

This was what our pediatrician recommended in GA. Because we were about to move we waited. My wife changed Tricare coverage today to get an appointment to talk to someone. I totally agree with seeking advice, I’m educated to a point but ignorant as a tree stump in this area.

I’d say 8 is a little early to be worried too much.

1. Good on you for showing support, understanding, and love.

2. Have the conversations that explain as long as she is willing to accept what others might "throw" at her, she can choose her own path.

Whether a phase or not, I feel you are on the right track.

I don't disagree that you talking to a professional for advise would be a good idea. My only caution would be that when stepping into that arena, things can be skewed heavily in a direction that might not align with your values and beliefs. Don't be afraid to seek counsel from several different ones to find the best fit.

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
I’d say 8 is a little early to be worried too much.

Not worried, more I want to be able to help my kid coming home embarrassed or confused everyday.

Worried would only come into play if I wanted her to be a certain way. I don’t care how she turns out 220. I just want to be able to explain to her that she isn’t gonna be understood and often during the next 10-20 years she’ll be questioned on it. If it lasts that long. Which I’m leaning towards a good bet.

I don’t even worry for her mental state as she has a good support system at home.

It’s just me not knowing how to parent this issue.

quote:

Originally posted by ffips:
1. Good on you for showing support, understanding, and love.

2. Have the conversations that explain as long as she is willing to accept what others might "throw" at her, she can choose her own path.

Whether a phase or not, I feel you are on the right track.

I don't disagree that you talking to a professional for advise would be a good idea. My only caution would be that when stepping into that arena, things can be skewed heavily in a direction that might not align with your values and beliefs. Don't be afraid to seek counsel from several different ones to find the best fit.

100% appreciate your post. Thank you for the reassurance.

As to your last concern, no chance of that. I understand and agree with your thinking, most professionals lean towards “changing” kids for some political or monetary gain. As mentioned with our discussions at school. That ain’t happening, no way in hell. We fully support our DAUGHTER, and that statement says it all.

Thank you, ffips, truly.

It seems like you are navigating a very sensitive situation quite well, and many good responses and advice so far.

Just a variable to consider, but do you know or suspect if anyone, a teacher or someone of ‘authority’ to her, like a coach or a girl scout leader or a sitter for example, that she is in regular contact with may be ‘influencing’ her in some manner on this?

Best wishes to you and your family.

I never had kids so fwiw...

I think there's a fairly straightforward truth here, and sticking to that seems sensible to me.

She's a girl, she wants to be a boy, and she prefers to act like a boy. That's OK. That's the truth, at least as best as you can see it. I think its safe to say that you can trust your heart with regard to her sincerity and the importance that it has for her. You know her.

Yes, other kids might not understand at first, and yes some might be hostile. But that's OK too, that's life, and of course things change anyway.

Time goes on, maybe her feelings change, maybe her friends become more accepting, maybe they don't. That can be true too. People can find themselves in that position for a lot of reasons, and I think that eventually, most of us do.

If she's dealing with her challenges and making friends and being happy in her life I don't think there's a problem. If she's not, she'll need help when that time comes, and you'll understand that day better then, than you can now.

I guess I'm saying that if she is sincere, teach her to stand up for herself, and to be herself, and to choose friends who stand with her. That's what I would want to hear if I was a kid.

I know a trans person. I saw her, now him, grow up very much like the daughter in this thread.
I saw the troubled times when she was confused. Luckily no major issue happened to my knowledge. About age 30, this person made a choice. NOT the choice you usually hear. The choice made was to stop fighting within oneself. She, now he, has become the most perfect "him". He is in the right place, the way he was wired for.
I can not think of a better word than "wired" to describe all this.

I have 3 kids. This was never an issue. But it has been for friends.

Be the good, strong dad. Supportive, loving, caring, and present.

The best thing you can do is say, you are my child, and I love you unconditionally.

Things will sort out over time as they will. You cannot change the path. You can only guide it. Your child will choose her path. Your choice is to support, or fight. I hope you choose to support, and it sounds like this is the path you have chosen.

After watching my friends go through this, it is easier than you think. Love and understanding go a very long way.

God bless you, your wife, and your child. May your love for your child overcome any societal pressure you may feel.

ETA: Hamden, above, says it better, more eloquently, and more concisely than I managed. He has it right. I have seen this as well, and it is magical.

I guess I’ll never understand a single digit age child telling you who they are attracted to without having a large outside influence from someone or some event.

So sorry for you and HER.
The reality is she is not a boy.
She needs to learn to face the facts and not be indoctrinated otherwise, IMO.

For the transition I mentioned above, indoctrination was NOT an issue. I saw the child grow from birth to adult. There was no indoctrination.
But yes, you must be aware of the A holes who do indoctrinate. Also aware of those who believe wrongly.

This is a useful, adult conversation. I congratulate Ottosig on bringing it up in such an honest and open way.
I just want to mention that—prior to the current wave of publicity about “trans” gender issues—girls like this might well be recognized as lesbian. I understand—-I have no real expertise on this—-that lesbians are often against the trans “hysteria”, as they feel it demeans the lesbian lifestyle.

Interesting thread…and I’m so happy I don’t have kids.
I watched friends kids, nieces and nephews go through stuff that I didn’t have to navigate. We’ve all known tomboys in our lives, I hope this is just her version of it.
I really hope there is a suitable outcome for you and your daughter Ottosig.

At her age, she really doesn’t know what she wants or believes. Children go through stages, especially as young as she is. That is why we don’t allow children to vote, drink alcohol, get a tattoo, or buy a handgun. It’s now pretty well accepted that the human brain is not fully developed until around 25 years of age.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3621648/

But wanting to do “boy” things instead of “girlie” things doesn’t raise my eyebrows. My daughter tried out and made her high school boys baseball team and was the first girl in our state to start in the state championship game - she is 5’6” and 105 lbs - and has a boyfriend. The running joke was that she was constantly getting asked for her number during and after games by boys on the other teams (she is cute). She also got hit 17 times that year by pitchers trying not to hit the cute girl up to bat (she did crowd the plate a bit just to throw them off) She might have even winked at a pitcher, on a full count just before he threw the pitch that walked her too. LOL.

My cousin and his daughters (and his sisters before him), love getting on the tractor and working with livestock on the family farm. That isn’t the most girlish thing yet they are all woman too.

So, what does it matter if she wants to play baseball and not with Barbie or drive a hot rod, or rebuild a PHPaul tractor? I’d say it does not matter at all!

Both the US and the UK governments recently funded studies on GIDs and children. The UK released their study, the US study was suppressed by the principal author (over the objections of other investigators). They call into question current accepted medical views on GIDs and children.

https://webarchive.nationalarc...dependent-review.uk/

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/1...s-olson-kennedy.html