Page 1 2
Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
semi-reformed sailor |
Big deal knows. "Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein “You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020 “A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker | |||
|
Sigforum K9 handler |
https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...0601935/m/9600095944 Interesting comments in this thread from member K.O.A.M. | |||
|
| semi-reformed sailor |
WRT KOAMs assertation in the lanky, What is the “whole deal”. I taught M16 rifles in the CG and a member had two hours of nomenclature,safety, and use..then went to the range and maybe qualified the 1st time on a basic course, then stepped up to a combat course, then the CO said he was allowed to carry a weapon after completing Use of Force training. All told he maybe had four hours or five before he could carry, and had to qual twice a year...as an instructor I don’t think that’s long enough time to carry a rifle and be proficient with it. He may have literally fired 95 rounds to qual. To me that is not proficient, that is training to the minimum. The. I was a cop and saw the minimum requirements. Every department trying to the minimum requirements except SWAT. , Again, I will stand on my initial premise, more training and more funding for ammo and training. A single annual qual does not make a rifleman. "Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein “You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020 “A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker | |||
|
| Sigforum K9 handler |
The idea that this is "money wasted" or "keeping up with the Joneses", etc is really short sighted and not faced with reality. When companies like Glock or SIG put package deals together, like has been explained, there isn't a lot of money put out by the agency. Most of the time it is a PR move by the company. For instance, we traded 12 year old Glocks for new Glock Gen5s for $45 per unit. My agency spent the money to upgrade to Trijicon HDs for an addition $60. So, for a little more than the price it would take to replace the dead night sights, we got brand new guns. An AR is no different. The guns have to be gone through on occasion. The idea that no maintenance is required is as dumb as thinking all you have to do is buy a car, and never change the oil. My goal before I retire is new rifles for all units. We have a hodge podge of manufacturers. Some of them came out of SWAT when SWAT got new rifles so they have been rode hard and put up wet. None have rails, unless it was left on when SWAT gave it up. None are issued optics, slings, or lights. They make do. I find that to be unsatisfactory as I refuse to fuck over my guys that put out by having a false assumption that what little money is spent of rifles is going to make anyone better. They get good training, and it's up to me to lobby for the best equipment I can get them. New rifles with rails, lights, slings, and I hope optics. I won't fuck over the guys that put out to spread the wealth for the lowest common denominator when the better value on the upgrade is equipment. I won't be remembered when I'm gone for the road deputy I was, nor the detective, or supervisor, but people will remember I busted my ass to get them the very best life saving tools I could, and that I never rested in that pursuit. I refuse to train people to run into places that they could lose their lives, while carrying substandard equipment, and pat them on the butt and say "Don't worry little buddy, you are trained and the lowest common denominator shot a 72 instead of a 70 the last time out". | |||
|
Member |
I hope we can agree that you can equip your officers with the most state of the art, top tier weapons, and that act in an of itself buys you and them virtually nothing without the rigid training program to make them proficient with them. The OPD officers I interact with (including two SWAT guys at church) fall into three distinct groups.
OPD is notorious for buying hardware without any real consideration for training. Luckily OPD SWAT doesn't seem to suffer from that deficiency. I don't begrudge any department the tools they need, but if you're going to buy firearms, then make absolutely sure you have the training program, ammo, and routine to help your officers fully utilize those weapons to their potential. I assure you, OPD brass hasn't budgeted a penny for additional training (beyond their routine stuff) because they never do. They will however have a bunch of pretty new SIG rifles to brag about. ----------------------------- Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter | |||
|
| Member |
Bit of sarcasm, huh? ----------------------------- Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter | |||
|
| semi-reformed sailor |
^^ I was trying to agree with the points you made in the post two up from this one. I'm just not as adept as getting my point across. We all have worked for the department that might look like it's doing the right thing, yet don't train the people who actually have to go into the building/patrol; or waste money on stupid things like new trappings for the imperial chief's offices instead of getting a truckload of ammo and providing the time and resources for their employees...ie my dept's range was reserved by so many different agencies that their employees couldn't get range time...ever...unless it was reserved for departmental training. "Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein “You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020 “A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker | |||
|
| Member |
I apologize. I totally mis-interpreted your comments. ----------------------------- Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter | |||
|
Member |
I was just told that FHP has ordered a couple thousand Sig rifles. CMSGT USAF (Retired) Chief of Police (Retired) | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
© SIGforum 2024