quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

The profanity laced melt down over the video is an excessive overreaction.

I'd say you are speaking to me.

I am not melting down, I am in fact quite calm. I was expressing deep and basic contempt for a hotdog who forgot what his job was. You say it's "inappropriate", that's cute and as The Dude says, "Yeah, well that's just your opinion, man." As is mine. I express my opinion on his lack of professionalism a bit more passionately since to many it reflects ill on all of us and for all the previously mentioned reasons.

Cheers.

quote:

Originally posted by Otto Pilot:
You don't get to make showboat shit up with a jet that belongs to someone else and folks who didn't sign up for that nonsense onboard. Want to put on an airshow? Sign up for your time slot the next time the Blue Angels come to town.

Doing what they did is BS, and all the "it didn't look that bad" in the world won't change my mind.

Won't try to change your mind. But I will point out that we both know the difference between "making showboat shit up with a jet" and precisely executing a maneuver which is trained to proficiency in the simulator and demonstrated on checkrides. Whether the maneuver was necessary or appropriate is what is in question (it was neither, IMHO). Forgetting to bring the gear up with a positive rate of climb did not add any danger to the maneuver, but it does give the Luftfahrt-Bundesamt an extra nail to hammer into his professional coffin for not following published procedures in the aircraft operating manual.

What the captain did was execute poor judgement, not put on an airshow. Severe certificate action is most likely in his future, and being hired by another airline in Europe is almost certainly out of the question. Like you, I do not condone his actions.

No worries gents. I have a much higher tolerance for that kind of shit I guess. I have no background in civilian aviation (well, minimum background), so if you're telling me this was off the reservation I believe you. From my POV however, the guy executed a low approach to closed pattern, and did so conservatively. I've done about 10,000 of those with and without passengers and consider it a normal training maneuver.

Again, you're the experts in this arena. If I ever make the transition to civilian flying I'll apparently have to adopt a different mindset.

quote:

Originally posted by arabiancowboy: If I ever make the transition to civilian flying I'll apparently have to adopt a different mindset.

You most definitely will. In the civilian world is it all about following the FARs and company policy. If, in the execution of following those rules you happen to get the passengers (and maybe their luggage) to their intended destination that's just a bonus. Otherwise, there is no room for a "get it done" mentality. You must always think like a lawyer and be ready to defend your actions in case someone questions them, including people completely unfamiliar with your job or its requirements. Your ticket to fly hangs over the shredder each time you enter the aircraft.

In the military it is all about accomplishing the mission, especially in combat. You are paid to make it happen, including taking acceptable risks while being innovative on the fly if necessary. And perhaps you'll put yourself in danger while doing it.

Flying below mins, beyond crew day and in a questionable aircraft might get you a medal if you accomplish the mission and save lives. But do that in the civilian world and it will get you some unwanted attention from the FAA and possibly fired from the company, no matter how good your intentions were to get little Suzie to Grandma's house in time for Christmas.

quote:

Originally posted by Tailhook 84:

Won't try to change your mind. But I will point out that we both know the difference between "making showboat shit up with a jet" and precisely executing a maneuver which is trained to proficiency in the simulator and demonstrated on checkrides.

I get what you’re trying to convey here, but there’s a big difference between practicing and demonstration a go around, and what these guys did. What I saw was a lazy climbing left turn around the terminal, at low altitude, with the gear hanging out. It was definitely not a max performance climb at ref+5 or whatever speed they target to get to their acceleration altitude, fly the missed, and reenter the arrival flow.

I’d also wager that this was a little outside their comfort zone, given the “think inside the box” mentality that easa applies to training and line operations, combined with the comparatively lower experience level for most european pilots. It’s terrifying to think that some euro operators are hiring zero experience folks off the street, and fast tracking them to the right seat of the Bus.

Either way, I wouldn't be too anxious to be on the final flight of an insolvent airline.