AI F16 pilot beats human F16 instructor pilot 5-0 in test of new technology.

August 23, 2020, 12:58 PM

x0225095

As the title says....interesting story.

https://www.foxnews.com/tech/a...ts-human-clean-sweep

Edited to link original story ...

https://www.airforcemag.com/ar...ilot-in-darpa-trial/

August 23, 2020, 01:04 PM

18DAI

They should have used a Navy pilot. A hung over Navy pilot would be even better. Would have kicked that drones AI ass then.

Regards 18DAI

August 23, 2020, 01:07 PM

BBMW

I assume this was in a simulator and both the real and AI pilots were flying equivalent simulated aircraft.

I've thought for a while that the AF should take th basic current F-16 design, remove the cockpit beef up the airframe to take 12-15G, add 360x360 multispectral EO sensors, and set it as an antonymous UCAV. This is especially true since it seems like they now have the software working.

August 23, 2020, 01:41 PM

sns3guppy

Something we frequently ran into in Iraq was that unmanned equipment would lose targets, especially mobile targets. The unmanned equipment, even when being operated by a man, had distinct disadvantages, not the least of which was a lack of peripheral vision. I've been assigned to find targets that the unmanned assets lost. I've also seen cases, quite a few times, in which unmanned equipment missed basic stuff; an explosion or flash, for example, which was picked up by pilot peripheral, but not by the UAV.

The UAV can have a decision tree, but can't have judgement. The pilot gets paid for judgement.

August 23, 2020, 01:52 PM

sigcrazy7

An interim solution would be a fighter swarm, where one pilot has two or three AI fighter escorts. The pilot would provide the judgement and overall control, while the AI planes would coordinate their attacks on the target. There’s at least a SciFi movie in there somewhere.

August 23, 2020, 01:55 PM

Bytes

quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:
The UAV can have a decision tree, but can't have judgement. The pilot gets paid for judgement.

Ummmmm, bullshit fly boy. Judgement can definitely be programmed. Maybe you should keep up with AI (Artificial Intelligence) technology.

August 23, 2020, 03:46 PM

Boss1

'Open the pod bay bay doors, HAL.'

What could go wrong?

A real life Sisyphus...
"It's not the critic who counts..." TR
Exodus 23.2: Do not follow the crowd in doing wrong...
Despite some people's claims to the contrary, 5 lbs. is actually different than 12 lbs.
It's never simple/easy.

August 23, 2020, 03:55 PM

Sigolicious

It is my understanding that the AI, rather than having to look for the human piloted AC, was fed the information on its whereabouts through the entire evolution rather than having onboard sensors to detect his location. Additionally the AI was allowed to fly in a grey area of structural limits that were otherwise in place for both the pilot and airframe of the human flown AC.

Seems to me the AI AirCraft had the edge from the go and the whole thing was an exercise in "what if".

August 23, 2020, 03:56 PM

sns3guppy

quote:
Originally posted by Bytes:

Ummmmm, bullshit fly boy. Judgement can definitely be programmed. Maybe you should keep up with AI (Artificial Intelligence) technology.

No, that's bullshit. Pure, fucking bullshit.

Logic can be programmed. Judgement cannot. Not even in systems that can "learn."

"Judgement" can be pre-programmed. Programs can be authorized to "decide" based on established criteria. That is not the same thing as making a judgement call on a flight, or using judgement. Not at all.

I've seen WAY too many UAV fuckups to buy that shit, mate. Way too many near mid-air's, way too many covering and fixing for UAV shortcomings.

Clearly you haven't.

August 23, 2020, 03:57 PM

nhracecraft

SkyNet....Brought to you by Cyberdyne Systems!

____________________________________________________________

If Some is Good, and More is Better.....then Too Much, is Just Enough !!
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Live Free or Die!

August 23, 2020, 04:30 PM

46and2

quote:
Originally posted by Bytes:
quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:
The UAV can have a decision tree, but can't have judgement. The pilot gets paid for judgement.

Ummmmm, bullshit fly boy. Judgement can definitely be programmed. Maybe you should keep up with AI (Artificial Intelligence) technology.

Nonsense, over-hyped AI-fan.

If it's not biological and man made it, it did not and flatly cannot decide anything for itself.

Calling technology judgement doesn't make it so.

Words mean things. Machines don't decide nor have judgment, and cannot.

They do what we tell them to. No more. No less.

August 23, 2020, 04:41 PM

BBMW

That's more a sensor issue. Early UAVs were equipped with high magnification day and infrared cameras that had very limited fields of view. This is why I brought up the idea of equipping a UCAV with continuous 360x360 degree sensors. It would essentially have infinite peripheral vision. This would be backed up with a trainable high magnification sensor.

quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:
Something we frequently ran into in Iraq was that unmanned equipment would lose targets, especially mobile targets. The unmanned equipment, even when being operated by a man, had distinct disadvantages, not the least of which was a lack of peripheral vision. I've been assigned to find targets that the unmanned assets lost. I've also seen cases, quite a few times, in which unmanned equipment missed basic stuff; an explosion or flash, for example, which was picked up by pilot peripheral, but not by the UAV.

The UAV can have a decision tree, but can't have judgement. The pilot gets paid for judgement.

August 23, 2020, 05:09 PM

Bytes

quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:
quote:
Originally posted by Bytes:

Ummmmm, bullshit fly boy. Judgement can definitely be programmed. Maybe you should keep up with AI (Artificial Intelligence) technology.

No, that's bullshit. Pure, fucking bullshit.

Logic can be programmed. Judgement cannot. Not even in systems that can "learn."

"Judgement" can be pre-programmed. Programs can be authorized to "decide" based on established criteria. That is not the same thing as making a judgement call on a flight, or using judgement. Not at all.

I've seen WAY too many UAV fuckups to buy that shit, mate. Way too many near mid-air's, way too many covering and fixing for UAV shortcomings.

Clearly you haven't.

Wow, thanks for the lesson in computer science. You should stick to flying and keep very quiet in other fields that you know absolutely nothing about. Decision tree

I haven't heard that in decades. Must be a aviator phrase. Maybe you could draw up a flow chart for me some day

August 23, 2020, 05:13 PM

erj_pilot

Oh Jeezus. Not this "who's dick is bigger" argument yet again...

"If you’re a leader, you lead the way. Not just on the easy ones; you take the tough ones too…” – MAJ Richard D. Winters (1918-2011), E Company, 2nd Battalion, 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne

"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil... Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel." - Isaiah 5:20,24

August 23, 2020, 05:14 PM

Bytes

quote:
Originally posted by erj_pilot:
Oh Jeezus. Not this "who's dick is bigger" argument yet again...

Sorry erj, I'm done.

August 23, 2020, 05:18 PM

Angus the Kid

Bones ain't buying it.

August 23, 2020, 05:19 PM

Lord Vaalic

If you tell the AI pilot to do something or not do something, can it ignore you and do it or not do it anyway?

If it can't ignore you and do what it wants anyway, it doesn't have judgement.

August 23, 2020, 05:28 PM

limblessbiff

quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
I assume this was in a simulator and both the real and AI pilots were flying equivalent simulated aircraft.

I've thought for a while that the AF should take th basic current F-16 design, remove the cockpit beef up the airframe to take 12-15G, add 360x360 multispectral EO sensors, and set it as an antonymous UCAV. This is especially true since it seems like they now have the software working.

Do you want Sky Net? Because this is how we get Sky Net

August 23, 2020, 06:29 PM

valkyrie1

Its no surprise that an AI flown plane can take a lot more G's etc because the aircraft has the capabilities,after a certain point a human can't follow.

August 23, 2020, 10:57 PM

Kevbo

The original article clearly says it was programmed not to exceed the limitations of the aircraft and was given parameters that match the same limits a human pilot would be bound by

quote:
Originally posted by valkyrie1:
Its no surprise that an AI flown plane can take a lot more G's etc because the aircraft has the capabilities,after a certain point a human can't follow.