I have a good buddy in Germany who's a gun guy, has all the proper credentials and sometimes asks me to mail or bring him stuff that manufacturers won't ship to him. I think I brought him a Trijicon red dot unit on the last trip, have also mailed him a P320 grip module, that got held up by German customs, but eventually released to him. He wants another one now, an aluminum one that he cannot get shipped to him from the manufacturer. I'm headed to Germany in a month. Again, just a grip module. What are my chances of getting held up or into real trouble?

I would not. Imagine all the places they might search, looking for "the rest of the gun"?

Nope.

Since this isn't the actual serialized receiver of the gun, I doubt you'd be breaking any laws, but you can't expect screeners on either end to know what they're looking at. I think there would be delays and a lot of probing questions asked before it's let through - if it's let through.

I've been to Germany about 30x, never once had anyone ask anything about luggage contents upon arrival. I've never been stopped or even looked at when walking through the "nothing to declare" exit after baggage claim. One time I was carrying a guitar case and a passing by customs cop just asked me if I was taking it back home with me. Nothing more than that.

What’s that law that covers exporting weapons tech? ICARS or something? No way would I do this. Maybe in the states. No way crossing foreign borders. Don’t do this.

^Are you thinking of ITAR?

Yes I am. Simple test. Go on Sigs website and see if they can ship to a German address.

Nope. Would not do that. No way in heck. Remember, your rights as an American do not extend outside our borders, and the laws change too. Growing up as a missionary kid, travel back and forth to Europe was something I did pretty often. There used to be a lot of American stuff that you couldn't get over there, so we'd try to bring certain items back with is whenever we were in the US, because it would be 3-4 years before we came back. Reces cups, root beer, crest toothpaste....stuff like that. Customs could be super easy or an absolute nightmare. There was no rhyme or reason to it, and it just depended on how the officer was feeling that day, but one thing you definitely didn't want to do was give them a reason to suspect anything you had was illegal.

We had a friend who worked in Germany who brought over a bunch of aspirin. Because he was trying to pack efficiently (the airlines used to allow 2 free bags, but remember, we're talking a couple of years between trips here) he had emptied several bottles into a plastic bag. When this was discovered, it resulted in his being detained by German customs for several days while they ripped his belongings apart, interviewed him repeatedly, investigated his background, etc. He eventually was allowed to proceed (sans his large bag of loose pills), but it was a valuable learning experience never to try and transport medication (even simple OTC stuff) outside of its original container.

The 4th amendment isn't a thing outside our borders. They're not obligated to give you the benefit of the doubt, can hold you on the slightest suspicion, and sieze anything they want. I had moved back to the US before I started carrying, but my parents still lived overseas for a number of years after that. It was a recurring nightmare of mine (like a literal nightmare that I would wake up from a sound sleep upset after experiencing it) that I would travel to visit them and accidentally leave a gun in my bag, and either get arrested in customs or they wouldn't find it and then I'd be stuck in-country trying to figure out what to do with an illegal gun. Not a happy feeling.

If you still want to help your buddy, I would first thoroughly research US export and German import laws for gun components and ensure that it's legal. Then, if you're absolutely positive it is legal, I'd ship it to him rather than carry it myself. It might get held up in customs, he might get hit with exorbitant import duties, and it may never even get to him...but any of those outcomes beats you getting detained in person because they found it in your bag.

ETA: Pedropcola and kkina bring up an excellent point regarding ITAR as well. I don't know the details of that law, but I would be very surprised if it's legal to ship gun parts of that nature outside the country. I would know that statute forward and backward before attempting to ship something like this. There's likely a good reason that Sig won't do it themselves.

What reason do merchants give for not shipping such an item to Germany? I would start with researching there.

Next, what do the German and US laws say?

My take is if it is clearly legal then do it. I doubt screeners in the USA are looking for things that aren't potential security threats. They aren't trained in all the minutiae of multiple country's import laws.

The grip module is from Icarus, not SIG. And Icarus's site says they are not registered with State, so they just will not ship anything overseas, no matter its ITAR classification. I think the one I shipped him a few years ago was from SIG. And even though it was held up a while in customs, I don't think he got hit with any duty, as it was a low total USD/Euro value. Anyway, I told him I'd ship, but probably not bring in checked luggage. I have enough to worry about entry there with my not being vaxxed, even though a neg test is supposed to be sufficience.

Good call. Worst thing that can happen by shipping is a 40 dollar grip module and shipping cost is lost. No reenactment of Midnight Express.

Sounds awfully risky for little benefit.

If you get held up, what is the hassle worth? The cost of a chunk of aluminum?

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:
I'm headed to Germany in a month. Again, just a grip module. What are my chances of getting held up or into real trouble?

How much is it worth for you to deal with all the headaches and penalties?

I don't believe this comes under ITAR statutes however, that's a US reg; getting into Schengen-zone and German-law, they're going to view such accessories as something entirely different. What's the headache and penalties worth to you? Shipping may be the better option.

I'd prefer the parts don't get through Customs than I don't get through Customs.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
Yes I am. Simple test. Go on Sigs website and see if they can ship to a German address.

That's a good point about ITAR. My first thought was the hassle of them searching for the rest of the gun. But you don't want to run afoul of any US regulations dealing with foreign trade. That's how you end up in a hellish nightmare.

To make it more complicated as of 2020 there is a second set of regulations. Export Administration Regulations (EAR). The EAR regulates export and export restrictions.

The stuff they consider dual-use as civilian and military related have regulations and restrictions of export.

Not worth taking it across the border.

I would go through the regulations to be sure I was not breaking any laws shipping it.

Even if the US law (ITAR) lets you export it, you probably need to know whether the German law lets you (or him) import it. One does not necessarily follow from the other.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Pyker,

I got taken to the back room and searched over a Nintendo DS going home on leave. Put it through a bomb detector and everything, I honestly wouldn’t try it.

By definition of German law a grip module is considered a major fire arms part which is treated as the gun its self.

I would definitely not recommend bringing that into Germany!


https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/...=publicationFile&v=4

I'm not going to do it. But my buddy is totally legal to own and with all credentials. I used to know a German Customs cop, but I don't think I have his email anymore to ask him.