Question about smoking a turkey in an Egg

November 30, 2022, 12:28 PM

I have a knock off Egg / Kamodo that I got from Costco. I have had it a few years and really like it. I make lots of brisket, some steak, some hamburgers and sometimes even pizza.

We had been out of town for Thanksgiving in 20' and 21', so this year was my first chance to try a turkey. I did a practice run in early November and was pleased with the results. I cooked it around 300 degrees, up to an internal temp of 165. I rubbed some olive oil on it with some poultry rub.

Before Thanksgiving I told a friend and he said he likes to put a pan of white wine on the rack below the turkey. It evaporates off and keeps the turkey moist and infuses flavor.

So for Thanksgiving in addition to what I did during my trial run I added diced onions and apple slices to the cavity and a pan of moscato on the rack.

The birds were about the same size, but instead of one 12 lb bird, there were two. I monitored temps with two Meater probes in each bird. I kept the cooking temp about the same and removed the birds when they hit 165 internal.

But the two birds for Thanksgiving went beyond moist. They almost felt wet. Almost like the were undercooked. The flavor was great, but because they were so moist, it threw off the texture.

Is it possible to have cooked a bird to 165 internal and to have undercooked it?

Or did my pan of moscato, which also happened to catch the droppings and kept those circulating through the air, just make the interior of the egg too moist?

November 30, 2022, 12:57 PM

RogueJSK

quote:
Originally posted by holdem:
Is it possible to have cooked a bird to 165 internal and to have undercooked it?

Yes, if your temperature reading wasn't accurate.

Probe placement can make a difference.

If your probes are overinserted/underinserted, inserted touching a bone, or inserted in a thinner area, it can affect the accuracy of your temperature readings.

November 30, 2022, 01:23 PM

old rugged cross

if everything is equal I would think cooking it another 20-30 mins. would be preferrable.

November 30, 2022, 01:29 PM

dsiets

When I use a probe, I always double check several areas w/ an instant read to make sure.

November 30, 2022, 01:35 PM

RogueJSK

quote:
Originally posted by dsiets:
When I use a probe, I always double check several areas w/ an instant read to make sure.

That's a good idea, especially on things with greatly varying thickness, like a whole bird.

November 30, 2022, 01:38 PM

snwghst

Make sure to probe both dark and white meats

Serious eats has a good video on placements

November 30, 2022, 01:47 PM

TSE

I almost ruined Thanksgiving three years ago by doing the same thing. I inserted the probe in the breast, when it should have gone in to the transition from breast to leg (according to my BIL chef). He quickly deboned the bird and we cooked the meat before serving.

November 30, 2022, 01:56 PM

PASig

quote:
Originally posted by TSE:
I almost ruined Thanksgiving three years ago by doing the same thing. I inserted the probe in the breast, when it should have gone in to the transition from breast to leg (according to my BIL chef). He quickly deboned the bird and we cooked the meat before serving.

The best part to put the probe is the thigh, or the thickest part of the bird. I guess you basically are saying that. Breast meat cooks faster than thigh/leg which is why it's easy to end up with bone dry breast and pink undercooked thigh if you aren't careful.

November 30, 2022, 02:45 PM

bettysnephew

@holdem
Kamado grills tend to cook items which come out much moister than other ways of cooking. My first question would be if your friend is using a kamado. If it is any other type of grill, like gas or typical charcoal most of the methods that work well in them do not apply. Kamados work by limiting airflow and insulating to control temperature which is why food does not dry out so much. It is a totally different way of getting to the end result.
Also look up spatchcocking as that is an excellent way of cooking poultry. You cut the backbone out and flatten the carcass on the cooking grate. It cooks very evenly and quicker than when left as a whole bird.

November 30, 2022, 03:28 PM

holdem

quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:

Probe placement can make a difference.

Each bird had two probes. One in the breast, one in the leg. I did not keep track of which was which, but on both birds, when one said 165, the other was at least at 160. So they were pretty close. But I guess maybe that was enough of a difference.

November 30, 2022, 03:29 PM

holdem

quote:
Originally posted by old rugged cross:
if everything is equal I would think cooking it another 20-30 mins. would be preferrable.

That was my thought. Just cook the next one to 170 internal.

November 30, 2022, 03:30 PM

holdem

quote:
Originally posted by bettysnephew:
My first question would be if your friend is using a kamado.

Yes, he is using an actual BGE brand.

November 30, 2022, 06:22 PM

Shaql

I would say 300 was a little low. 300 warms up the bird but doesnt allow the meat to break down like you want IMO. I cook mine at 350. Got it to 165 and then went another 15 mins. Good and moist but not under cooked. Temp was 170 off the grill. But we also brine it and have sliced fruit and onion in the cavity. So expect it to be moist.

November 30, 2022, 06:57 PM

urbanwarrior238

I am no expert but I always thought the "egg" came out of a Turkey??

November 30, 2022, 11:18 PM

tatortodd

I suspect that the issue is an insufficient air gap between the water pan and the rack the turkey sat upon. Here is an excerpt from Amazingribs.com's excellent turkey tips:

quote:
Water pans, drip pans, roasting pans

When setting up for 2-zone cooking, I normally recommend you put a water pan under the meat. It acts as a heat sink, absorbing energy and moderating fluctuations. A water pan also puts humidity in the atmosphere to reduce evaporative cooling and helps keep the meat moist. If you have a small grill, the water pan can actually sit between the flame and the meat, casting a heat shadow above it so the meat doesn’t overheat.

For this grilled turkey recipe or smoked turkey recipe, we replace the water in the pan with the fixins for our special gravy and it will collect dripping further enriching the gravy. This gravy/drip pan should have at least 3.5 quart (4L) capacity and must be large enough to fit under the entire bird. The best choices are stainless steel, ceramic, or CorningWare. Be forewarned, the pan it will get smoky and need serious scrubbing. Don’t use copper because it can react with the salts and acids in the gravy. I have used a disposable aluminum pan and noticed no off flavors, but I now have a stainless steel roasting pan that I use just for outdoor cooking because I got tired of sleeping on the couch.

You never want to put the bird in liquid on the bottom of a roasting pan. If you put it in liquid, you will boil the back and end up with soggy flavorless meat and inedible skin. If you put it in a dry pan, it will stick and the dripping oils will fry the back, usually overcooking it. So you’ll need a grate for holding the bird. You can use one from your grill, or even one from your indoor oven.

The tricky part is arranging everything when getting ready to prepare our grilled turkey recipe or smoked turkey recipe. Because there are so many different grill designs I can’t go through all the options, so grasp the science and adapt it to your own rig. The ideal setup is to place the bird on a rack 2 to 3″ (5 to 7.6cm) above the pan so heat and smoke can travel between them. If the bird is any lower, the mass of the cooler gravy, evaporation from its surface, and the sides of the pan will conspire to block heat, airflow, and smoke and you will end up with a pale, soggy, undercooked bottom.

The traditional turkey roasting configuration is a V-shaped rack that sits in a deep roasting pan with water in the pan to keep the drippings from burning. It is a recipe for skin as pale as a Seattle sunbather on the bottom and sides, and undercooked dark meat. I can see you nodding in recognition from here.

Prof. Greg Blonder, is a physicist, entrepreneur, former Chief Technical Advisor at the legendary Bell Labs, food lover, and the AmazingRibs.com science advisor and mythbuster. To assist in helping create our ideal grilled turkey recipe or smoked turkey recipe, he measured the temps at different levels above the liquid in a 3″ (7.6cm) tall pan of water.

Even though the oven was 325°F (162.8°C), the liquid never reached boiling temp in the time it took to cook a turkey. That’s because air is a lousy conductor of heat. You can put your hand in a 325°F oven (162.8°C), but don’t put it in 325°F (162.8°C) oil. Because the evaporation of water from the surface cools the liquid in the same way sweat cools us on a hot day, the temp of the gravy may never get above 175°F (79.4°C).

As you can see from the illustration, if the bird is below the lip of the pan and about 2″ (5cm) above the gravy, the bottom of the bird is in 240°F (115.6°C) high humidity air, 85°F (47.3°C) cooler than the top of the bird which is chugging away nicely in dry heat. That’s why turkey backs are so often as flabby as an elephant’s.

Even if you place the bird on a grate on the lip of the pan, the bottom will still be much cooler than the top and will almost certainly be undercooked. He did experiments with a shallow pan and got similar results.

In order to heat the bottom of the bird properly when preparing our grilled turkey recipe or smoked turkey recipe, if you are using a 3″ (7.6cm) pan with liquid as I recommend, you need to get the meat 3″ (7.6cm) above the pan for the air temp to be 325°F (162.8°C) all around.

If you can’t get your bird above the pan, you should start it breast side down and turn it over after an hour. Another option is to just remove the drip pan about 20 minutes before the bird is finished and put its back above direct heat. Just be sure to watch it carefully so it doesn’t burn and check the temp in the breast before bringing it in.

December 01, 2022, 09:22 AM

HayesGreener

I do several turkeys and chickens a year on my BGE. I hate dry poultry. I have tried several methods, a "fast cook" at 350, a slower cook at 275, and a slow cook at 225, all indirect with pecan wood for smoke. I prefer results from the slow cook method. I insert the meat thermometer in the thigh, and use a ceramic "beer can" turkey cooker with water and lemon in the cooker, which steams the bird from the inside and cooks faster. I do not use a water pan beneath. They always come out tender and moist in the BGE. I consistently find that the BGE cooks the turkey faster than the recipe cooking times. I believe this is in part because the turkey stands up in the cooker and it is hotter high in the dome than it is at the grate. This past Thanksgiving the 20# bird was done 4 hours before dinner. My only solution was to carve the bird and seal the carved birds in foil pans in the fridge until reheating at 300 for about 30 minutes before dinner. It turned out moist and tender.
There is a stand available that holds the pit temperature sensor high in the dome which I will be using next time I smoke a turkey to see how much difference it makes.