I have some older vinyl records which I'd like to be able to play since I've always been told that vinyl sounds better than newer digital audio, especially when paired w/ a tube amplifier.

I've been poking around Craigslist and found a Sears Silvertone console stereo w/ turntable and tuner for $50. It needs a little refinishing but otherwise it appears to be in good condition. I figured this would be the best route since it has the tube amp already in it, plus it adds a nice piece of furniture to the room. Anyone have any experience w/ these?

When they are talking about "tube amps" they are talking abut high end equipment.
Not the "console" variety with an universal changer/turntable.
They are referring to separate tube power amplifiers and preamps using a high quality turntable.
Unless you are will go that extra mile $$$$ then look at something more modern/recent.

smschulz said it correctly

There's a member here who collects old stereo consoles. Hopefully he'll chime in....he has some beautiful pics!

Regarding older record players, unless it's a highly desireable make and model, I would recommend against getting one unless it was restored by someone reputable in the profession.

I have two Dual players from this fellow and have praise for his services:

http://www.fixmydual.com/

I used to have a MacIntosh tube amp pushing a pair of Klipsch horns. This was the best you could get at the time at reasonable prices. They were premium equipment and sounded fabulous. You can still buy great amps like Marshall or other brands. Just be aware they $$$, like the above poster said. Of course, to take full advantage you will need speakers up to the task, more $$$. And don't forget good wiring like the Analysis Plus offerings- considered the best.

So should I just get a good turntable and tie it into my regular surround receiver?

The only reason I thought of getting a stereo w/ tube amp is because the last time I mentioned just getting a turntable people recommended something w/ a tube amp.

quote:

Originally posted by 6guns:
There's a member here who collects old stereo consoles. Hopefully he'll chime in....he has some beautiful pics!

Probably r0gue. He had some mid-century German consoles..Saba? Grundig? Telefunken?, and a fair collection of lounge/easy listening vinyl.

We had a Monkey Wards console hi-fi when I was a kid. It had AM (average music), FM (fancy music), a rekkid player, and a B&W television. We were the envy of the neighborhood until the invention of color TV.

quote:

Originally posted by ryan81986:
So should I just get a good turntable and tie it into my regular surround receiver?

The only reason I thought of getting a stereo w/ tube amp is because the last time I mentioned just getting a turntable people recommended something w/ a tube amp.

I've been an analog audiophile fan since the mid 80s and it is funny to me in regards to the new generation of vinyl fans; they are under the impression that any type of cheap turntable will outperform CDs and that is simply untrue. I actually saw a person listen to a record on top of some sort of little record player unit with built-in speaker and exclaim the sound as awesome, better than digital. And yes, when audiophiles refer to tube components, they are referring to to companies like Conrad Johnson, VAC, Coincident, Mc Intosh, etc. Expensive pieces of equipment.

A good turntable with a well thought out platter/chassis/ motor design coupled with a good tonearm/cartridge set-up will yield noticeable results through the right system. There is a difference between nostalgia and good audio performance.

Slight thread drift but it reminded me of this interesting picture I ran across a while back.

quote:

Originally posted by ryan81986:
So should I just get a good turntable and tie it into my regular surround receiver?

The only reason I thought of getting a stereo w/ tube amp is because the last time I mentioned just getting a turntable people recommended something w/ a tube amp.

It is possible to add a turntable/cartridge to an existing system.
It is not as easy as in the "old days" but can be done.
Receivers now days may not have a built in phono-preamp so this will have to be added.
This pre-amp boosts output and applies an equalization (RIAA Curve) so that the amplifier can send it on to the speakers.
Additionally tonearms and cartridges should be matched to work with each other optimally.
For example: a lightweight tonearm uses a cartridge with high compliance or flexibility in the stylus.
In the "old days" a turntable like this might be a Dual as opposed to a heavier tonearm table like Technics with a "S" tonearm.
Each would benefit from different cartridges.
[/Cliff Claven]

I use a technics turntable with an ortofon bronze cartridge. It is a good cart, but at only $400 there are some over 20k. You can change the cart on any good table.

I use a Manley chinook tube pre and a monarchy amp. I need more power so it will go soon.

Everything runs through my Yamaha receiver because it is a multi use system.

Denon currently makes decent turntables with built-in preamps. This feature can be switched on or off, should you change your system to another device with a phono input.

Denon Turntable

I don't know for certain that vinyl does sound better. Back when Compact Discs came out, the recordings all had this hard, brittle sound. It was rather off-putting for those of us who grew up listening to vinyl.

The needle of phonograph can touch only one side of the recording groove at a time. Therefore, there are phasing queues which are present in played-back vinyl recordings that do not exist outside of those records. I think what happened was that old audiophiles such as myself were so used to these phasing artifacts, that the harsh-sounding CD recordings seemed terribly inferior.
Before the 1980s were through, though, the makers of CDs and CD players got a handle on the harshness of CDs, and although I gave up chasing perfect sound reproduction some years ago, I doubt that vinyl has any real advantage these days.

Tube amps as opposed to solid state- now that's a horse of a different color. Yes, tube amps CAN produce superior sound. The catch? It ain't cheap, not even close to cheap. Your average man on the street would have a heart attack if he started pricing tube amps.

quote:

Originally posted by ryan81986:
I have some older vinyl records which I'd like to be able to play since I've always been told that vinyl sounds better than newer digital audio, especially when paired w/ a tube amplifier.

I've been poking around Craigslist and found a Sears Silvertone console stereo w/ turntable and tuner for $50. It needs a little refinishing but otherwise it appears to be in good condition. I figured this would be the best route since it has the tube amp already in it, plus it adds a nice piece of furniture to the room. Anyone have any experience w/ these?

They are referring to something like a McIntosh amp. Great equipment, but you're looking at appx $5,000 per component.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
I don't know for certain that vinyl does sound better. Back when Compact Discs came out, the recordings all had this hard, brittle sound.

Yeah, harsh sounding CDs in the early years can be attributed to record companies using tapes mastered for vinyl instead of digital, and also CD players in its infancy; both technologies got better thru time. Even though I have a high-end turntable /audio system, I haven't bought vinyl in years, only CDs. I'm quite satisfied with my collection of old records, and yet I enjoy the hell out of my CD collection as well. But listening to vinyl and collecting is more work than digital.

Chasing perfect sound is an expensive hobby, and many times the ratio of money spent vs. increments of better sound can be ridiculous.

I still play a lot on my McIntosh 1900 and 1700 units. The 1700 has tubes in the FM section as I recall. I just had it cleaned and new caps installed. The 1900 goes in next. The 1900 powers Mac 1 speakers. The 1700 Klipsch RB3's.

Still in the family is a 1960s Packard bell floor unit stereo about 6" long. Sounds great still today. Very basey in it's wood cabinet. We use a simple disc changer through the aux in.

Ya made me start up the 1700/Klipsch with Cream's Albert Hall reunion. Far out, man.

You could also buy an older, integrated, tube amp from a maker like Scott. If you are really interested I think you should look at the audiokarma or Klipsch forums. There are several knowledgeable guys and amp builders. I have a Juicy Music preamp, Mcintosh amps, and 50's Klipsch Khorns. I listen to vinyl, CD's and even reel to reel tape through my two channel system.

There's a lot of argument about vinyl vs. digital.

There are some things that there can be no argument that digital does better. Channel separation and dynamic range come to mind.

Then it gets kind of hazy, and you get people saying things like "but analog is infinitely variable" and arguing about the relative merits of accurate reproduction versus warm or musical presentation.

There's no question that good vinyl through a good system sounds great.

If you're looking for accurate reproduction, science says digital (with solid-state, not tube, equipment) should be better.

If you're looking at old vinyl, where the music was recorded and mastered on analog equipment, then there's at least some room for argument.

Modern music, which is almost all recorded and mastered on digital equipment, is another question entirely. Taking a digital recording and converting it to analog vinyl gives you all of the drawbacks of the medium (hiss, dust, scratches, low channel separation and dynamic range, distortion, noise, etc.) and none of the (perceived) sonic benefits. The aesthetic or tactile benefit of records isn't affected, of course.

Another problem, particularly with digital releases of older music, is that they very often used absolute shit masters.

If you're comparing a record produced from a very good master and a CD produced from a very bad master, the record through a decent sound system will sound better than the CD through the best sound system in the world.

Count me on the pro-science, digital-done-right-is-better team, but I still have a nice turntable and maybe 100 old albums I still listen to.



As a side note, inexpensive solid-state amplifiers can be made to perform so well that BY FAR the most important piece of equipment in a digital-audio sound system (besides the speakers) is the DAC (digital-analog converter - it turns the 1's and 0's into a variable voltage signal that can actually be sent to the amplifier and then the speakers). Most people don't even think about there BEING a DAC in their sound system.

A good DAC makes good digital audio sound FANTASTIC. Whether it is built in to a receiver or is a standalone component (I have several of both).